Russian security forces raided gay clubs and bars across Moscow Friday night, less than 48 hours after the country’s top court banned what it called the “global LGBTQ+ movement” as an extremist organization.
Police searched venues across the Russian capital, including a nightclub, a male sauna, and a bar that hosted LGBTQ+ parties, under the pretext of a drug raid, local media reported.
Eyewitnesses told journalists that clubgoers’ documents were checked and photographed by the security services. They also said that managers had been able to warn patrons before police arrived.
To everyone cracking jokes about a gay uprising, it’s a lot simpler than any of that.
They just want to exterminate the gays. Like literally. They want to find that portion of the population and destroy it, because they think it’s disgusting and evil.
That’s it. Putin and the Russian conservatives are going after gays because it’s an easy win with their conservative base, and they can claim moral superiority. Also distracts from Ukraine.
If you are gay in Russia… Its a very bad time to be gay in Russia.
American “conservatives” are over here drooling at the possibilities.
Florida here checking in.
Our government is hard at work on this.
Check out this pending bill up for vote during the next session: https://m.flsenate.gov/session/bill/2024/599/billtext/filed/pdf https://m.flsenate.gov/session/bill/2024/599/billtext/filed/pdf
Essentially it makes it illegal to be transgender and have a job in government or government adjacent.
Here is an excert: It is the policy of the state that a person’s sex is an immutable biological trait and that it is false to ascribe to a person a pronoun that does not correspond to such person’s sex. This section does not apply to individuals born with a genetically or biochemically verifiable disorder of sex development, including, but not limited to, XX disorder of sex development; XY disorder of sex development; sex chromosome disorder of sex development; XX or XY sex reversal; and ovotesticular disorder.
An employee or a contractor may not be required, as a condition of employment, to refer to another person using that person’s preferred personal title or pronouns if such personal title or pronouns do not correspond to that person’s sex.
An employee or a contractor may not provide to an employer his or her preferred personal title or pronouns if such preferred personal title or pronouns do not correspond to his or her sex.
An employee or a contractor may not be asked by an employer to provide his or her preferred personal title or pronouns or be penalized or subjected to adverse personnel action for not providing his or her preferred personal title or pronouns.It continues on about not being able to fire people for thinking being gay is a sin and so on, but I don’t want this to be a novel.
Well, if gay people weren’t sabotaging electric substations, mass murdering innocent people and attempting to overthrow our government…, oh, wait!
Don’t forget that big gay plot to kidnap a governor, and the other big gay plot to seize control of the capitol, the Supreme Court, and the Department of State and installed Donald Trump as an unelected dictator. Yes, they planned on having a lot of proud boys go hard into Foggy Bottom.
E: I forgot that other big gay plot to send mail bombs to all the Democratic leadership, ex-presidents, and governors that they could.
When do we get around to turning the frogs gay? That’s my favourite part.
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Well I for one am so glad the government of Florida is tackling the REAL problems. Pronouns are scary and difficult to understand, and I never had to deal with calling my friend Dick by anything other than his given name.
/s because of poes law.
That bill doesn’t make it illegal for transgender people to have a job in government or government adjacent. It merely prohibits them from requiring (with the force of law) other people to acknowledge their sexual identity.
No doubt it makes it difficult for some transgender people – namely those who are unable to function if people don’t acknowledge them – to hold some jobs, though, but it doesn’t forbid it as you imply.
This is essentially a pro freedom of speech legislation. To compare this with the Russians raiding gay bars and making “gay propaganda” illegal is preposterous.
If I read the bill wrong, please correct me.
This is essentially a pro freedom of speech legislation.
It’s not though. It doesn’t just protect employers to call anyone whatever pronoun they want, it mandates that the preferred pronoun for trans people (and others) are not used.
It doesn’t just protect bigotry, it requires it.
My reading of the bill is that it specifically forbids any mandates towards pronoun use. This may enable bigotry, but does not require it.
But perhaps you can point to the sentence that requires bigotry since I missed it.
“An employee or a contractor may not provide to an employer his or her preferred personal title or pronouns if such preferred personal title or pronouns do not correspond to his or her sex.”
You’re right that it doesn’t require bigotry, but this section says that if a transgender person is misgendered, they cannot even request to be referred to by their preferred pronouns. I understand not being forced to refer to any person by any specific name or pronoun, but not being able to share your preferences is the opposite of freedom of speech.
Yes, seems like you were right and I was wrong. Thank you for correcting me.
That’s indeed a rather shitty clause which goes beyond protecting free speech.
This is essentially a post from a dumbass that never amounted to anything.
You’re right, fuck free speech!
Translation: I don’t like what he says but I have no actual arguments so I’ll just ad hominem. That’ll show him.
Thank you for, in your own peculiar way, confirming my conclusions though.
Or, I have lots of actual arguments but recognize that I’m not your dad or your professor, and that I actually just think you’re stupid and not worth the time it would take to explain it to you.
I recognize this form of argumentation from middle school. As you are presumably an adult instead of a child, perhaps you should try to improve your argumentation skills quite a lot before continuing these “actual arguments” you claim to have.
Their Stochastic terrorism has too low of a rate. Either move onto more practical efforts, or make the whole world worse to increase the Stochastic terrorism rates.
Well shit, they’re just going to do both.
Hahaha, the word conservative dies at war doesn’t it?
That’s it. Putin and the Russian conservatives are going after gays because it’s an easy win with their conservative base, and they can claim moral superiority. Also distracts from Ukraine.
There you said it. They don’t care about gay people. They need an easy win with conservative public before future (mock) elections and to distract people from Ukraine. And they also want a weapon to proclaim anyone they dislike an extremist.
Can you prove you aren’t gay? Let’s see. It’a either you record a video of apologizing for being gay, or we stuff a broom up your ass and you record a video of apologizing for being gay 🤗 Either way, 10 years in a joint.
I’ve recently seen a good article in a ru-language blogosphere. These pieces of shit who climbed to the power in the 90s and 00s break every ladder to their positions, they want to establish themselves as new nobles, and they need a variety of tools to persecute whoever they dislike. They want the good ol’ serfdom. They build it as we speak.
It’s not bad if you are gay and noble. Gref, Volodin, others are gossiped to be gay. Rather it’s bad to be not in their club, like most do. Then you are in a risk of being persecuted and robbed of everything over nothing.
It’s 21th century and neo-feudalism is on the rise! Fuck, I hate it here.
others are gossiped to be gay.
Milonov. He makes a lot of anti-gay statements, but he is gossiped to be gay.
I think I’ve read he was openly gay in the 90s (I mean, Zhirinovsky too to some extent) and there are photos of him from parties of the relevant thematic. I think I saw them even.
Zhirik is his own phenomenon. There are for example Zhirinovsky’s Sauna Boys - a group of men, who were often seen in sauna with him and then got position like Degtyarov.
I’d argue that for what he was used for, being a vehicle for unpopular laws, he may not be gay (as we don’t have solid proofs and it doesn’t really matter), but he is sure an f-word.
Just like that guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Krasovsky
His reaction to treating LGBTQ+ as extremists while being an open gay? Hurr-durr I mean, sometimes you take what your Motherland needs over what you want. That’s the same dude who got banned from the TV because his suggestion of burning ukrainian kids blocked in houses was just too extreme for our media. He’s not unlike fucking Sharikov with that line of choking stray cats.
For what I care, they can eat whatever, may it be a pussy or a dick, but I’d strongly approve if they’d eat a fucking brick. They do everything to make it be seen as a consensual act.
This is just standard fascism. They need a constant stream of enemies weak enough that they can’t defend themselves. Whom they can paint as responsible for all a societies woes.
Fascism 101. We see Republicans employing that heavily here in the United States.
They need a new enemy every now and then. If the current enemy happens to be exterminated, they’ll need one sooner, but they’ll need a new one anyways.
My bet is they round up the men and send them to the front as fodder.
The convenient thing about the LGBTQ+ community though is that we can pop up anywhere, at any time. The perpetual boogieman.
Its a very bad time to be gay in Russia.
I don’t think not being gay changes much in this statement
I mean, they are literally mounting campaigns targeting gays now. Maybe it sucks for both but it sucks especially hard for gay people in Russia at the moment.
E.g. Maybe it sucks to live in Mordor. But as a Goblin instead of as an Orc, maybe it sucks especially hard when Sauron starts the “let’s purge the Goblins” campaign led by the Orcs.
Yes, I know, the article speaks for itself. It was more of a joke about how it’s “a very bad time to be in Russia, period”.
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and the Russian conservatives
The Russian conservatives include plenty of gay people. Obviously hypocritical, but I wouldn’t expect them to support actual extermination.
The reason such actions happen is to show the average ignorant citizen (as Putin & co imagine that) that what said person wants is being delivered. Of course the average ignorant citizen doesn’t care about hurting LGBTQ people (at worst cares about hurting anyone happier than him, but still with no specifics). They just have a skewed picture of what that average citizen is, some drunk guided (in their imagination) by Russian prison culture only interested in having a better car.
Ah, also Putin & co are not conservatives. They in general have no consistent ideology to speak of. Take anyone important - they’ve been with “democrats pushing for reform” in the last years of the USSR, then “democrats fighting the Communist beast” in Yeltsin’s early years, then “centrists trying to prevent the integrity of the federation” in his late years, then with Putin “law against terrorism”, then “law against neo-Nazis”, then “economic stability unlike the bad-bad 90s”, and so on. At some point they got lazy and the facades became less consistent and memorable.
The Russian conservatives include plenty of gay people. Obviously hypocritical
Example: Milonov
They in general have no consistent ideology to speak of.
For those who don’t know difference between totalitarism and authoritarism, this is the differece.
Take anyone important - they’ve been with “democrats pushing for reform” in the last years of the USSR, then “democrats fighting the Communist beast” in Yeltsin’s early years, then “centrists trying to prevent the integrity of the federation” in his late years, then with Putin “law against terrorism”, then “law against neo-Nazis”, then “economic stability unlike the bad-bad 90s”, and so on. At some point they got lazy and the facades became less consistent and memorable.
CORRECT
Well, it appears that some people not from Russia or its neighborhood are so unwilling to change their simple and wrong picture of what happens there, that they even care to downvote a comment simply pointing out that Putin, Shoigu, Patrushev, others have in various roles been near the top for all of the last 30 years, and then simply listing the main state “ideology” lines in Russia in the last 30 years, with no political position taken.
Or maybe it’s my bad English in that comment, I meant “preserve the integrity”, of course =\
Or maybe it’s my bad English in that comment
Happens to me too.
Anyway, if it was on mastodon, I would say you are downvoted because your comment contradicts their General Party Line, but mastodon instances can’t downvote, so no idea.
Russia looking a lot like their old enemy the Nazis these days.
Russia has always been anti-LGBT+. Stalin called them abomination and Putin is just a dimestore version of that monster.
It’s worth remembering that for all of the numerous issues Western nations and especially the US have with freedom of speech and expression, for every convert to some racist ideology, there is also a new supporter of LGBT+. The rise in hate we see is paralleled by a rise in acceptance of the marginalized. Freeze peaches is a double edged sword and always has been.
The paradox of tolerance is certainly an issue, but the very fact we’ve evolved as a culture to the point we’re having a discussion about it says something about the benefits of that freedom. Our culture isn’t stagnant. We have the capacity for growth and change, and while the government usually maintains the social status quo, we in turn can affect what the status quo is.
Fucking peaches.
Not always. Soviet Russia decriminalized homosexuality in 1917, and it was the first country in the world to do that. But it was recriminalized again in 1933 by Stalin.
Fuck Stalin
I was reading several months ago that there was a time in the mid ‘90s that there were a few gay clubs in Russia that were relatively unmolested by the cops, as long as the local “roof” was paid off.
Not always, there were periods in their history of acceptance of homosexuality.
Ironically, Russians think they are fighting Nazis in Ukraine.
And Ukraine’s president is Jewish.
And they always have
I don’t know people incorrectly try to associate everything with Nazi. It’s hard to take anyone serious when they don’t even know what a Nazi is.
This isn’t dissimilar from how they were under the Soviet Union. Russians are just going to Russian.
Not so much “Russians being Russian” as it is “Fascist power structure being fascist power structure “
It’s more accurate to say that Russia under the Soviets was also an authoritarian state.
Authoritarians by their very nature are right-wing.
Putin, the Soviets, the Nazis, Conservatives, and Fascists of all flavors are obsessed with control and conformity.
It’s far easier to control a population when everyone is exactly the same.
This is why the true left wing movements have always embraced minorities and outliers.
This of course is a call back to the very origins of the terms left and right when discussing politics. The French Revolution. A vote was held. One of the first of the new assembly. The question was, “Should the king have an absolute veto over new laws?”. Those in support of the monarchy sat to the right of the speaker’s podium. Those opposed sat to the left.
All the economic bullshit of capitalism v communism was added later. Making the Soviets, a supposedly communist nation, firmly right wing. Not that the Soviets were particularly good at actual communism. Communism sort of requires the workers to control the means of production, not the State. Workers must be working for their own profit, not the profit of the State.
Working for the profit of the State is more of a kleptocracy.
The nazis criminalized, imprisoned, and eventually exterminated gay and transgender people in death camps. So yes, comparisons to nazis are fair when you criminalize lgbt people and start rounding them up in jail, preventing them from gathering together, etc etc
Who defeated the Nazies, by the way?
Helping to defeat them isn’t an excuse to go around and act like them. And the countries the Soviet Union occupied after WWII ending up suffering greatly.
Too many massacres, war crimes, and genocides to list out. Start here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes
And again, how is anything the Soviet Union did during ww2 supposed to be an excuse or justification for the Russian government persecution of minorities 80 years later. I’m sure the gay people being thrown in jail, having their businesses destroyed, and being killed extra judicialy (for now) will take great comfort in the fact that a totally different government 80 years ago helped beat the nazis (though only after trying to make a deal with the nazis to invade and divide eastern Europe between them. The Soviet Union didn’t lift a finger until the nazis stabbed them in the back and invaded the Soviet union).
I see you are well acquainted with the idea of redfash
no such thing.
It’s true that authleft often looks a lot like authright, which supports the theory that political alignment is more like a circle than a line. After all, they were allies before Hitler betrayed Stalin. Since then being anti-Nazi became a big part of Russian propaganda.
Well well well. I thought Russia said the nazis were in Ukraine. Huh. Funny, that.
“But Vladimir, you were never going to find any Nazis out there! The Nazis were in you all along!”
Perhaps the true nazis were the friends we made along the way.
Russia never said that. Putin did.
both can be true
Sure it can. But that doesn’t mean it is.
Oh I’m sure if you look hard enough you’ll find one or two nazis hiding anywhere, even if they don’t identy as nazi or even know what it means.
But Russia, with its actions, have proven themselves to be an imperialist, nationalist, fascist piece of shit. And while both could be true, actions speak louder.
I think it’s pretty natural to want good things for your imaginary team, everywhere you go across the USA you’ll see whites, blacks, asians, etc even in Chinatowns where people, particularly migrants consistently demonstrate a need to be self reliant, and on a higher level, extending that to your country, region or continent is not necessarily indicative of an anti-collaborative attitude at all.
I look at it like a case of expanding your circle of sympathies from yourself, to your country, and further towards a collective transhumanism. If you cannot take care of yourself, rationally, you should be skeptical of your ability to take care of others, and makeup etc often does no justice considering the price these days
integrating the azov brigade into the national guard sounds like a bunch of Nazis are in the government to me.
Yeah, it’s a problem. A threatened country integrated a fascist militia into its army. Yes, and that’s bad.
But the country as a whole does not like Nazis at all, and doesn’t vote for them.
“In the 2019 Ukrainian elections, the far-right nationalist electoral alliance, including Svoboda, National Corps, Right Sector, Azov Battalion, OUN, and Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists, under-performed expectations. In the presidential election, its candidate Ruslan Koshulynskyi received 1.6% of the vote, and in the parliamentary election, it was reduced to a single seat and saw its national vote fall to 2.15%, half of its result from 2014 and one-quarter of its result from 2012.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Ukraine
The country has a Jewish president and a Muslim cabinet minister. Sound like a Nazi country to you?
Agreed. Remember the golden rule of warfare: so long as the guy beside you is shooting in the right direction, you can sort your differences out later.
The country has a Jewish president and a Muslim cabinet minister. Sound like a Nazi country to you?
identity politics are boring. there were Jewish collaborators in the third Reich.
In most cases, Jews who chose to collaborate with Nazis did so to guarantee their personal survival, which distinguished them from most other ethnic groups who collaborated with Nazi Germany. It’s not exactly a fair comparison.
but you see that identity is not a preventative for fascism, right? I don’t think the president of Ukraine is any more fascist than Biden or Obama. but I also take a pretty dim view of them.
Where’s Azov now, and where’s Rusich?
you can’t believe anything I’ve said is defending any country or group of Nazis.
I don’t pick my favorite nazis here too lol. I point out one had 9 years of being dismantled and intermixed with regular corps, meaning it’s non-existent by now, and one is still intact and active as it’s own entity.
one had 9 years of being dismantled and intermixed with regular corps, meaning it’s non-existent by now
i don’t believe this is true for a second. integrating was wrong: some of those Nazis surely stayed in leadership, shaping an even larger recruitment base. that shit doesn’t just disappear. it must be rooted out.
The irony of the whole Azov thing is a majority of their members are ex Russians who moved to East Ukraine because Russia wasn’t being Nazi enough for them.
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I’m not justifying keeping Nazis around.
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I don’t make a distinction between the Nazis on one side of a border or the other.
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You need to study the subject more closely before stating that (: Slavik nazism is a deep rabbithole, but for the purpose of this article, I compare two governments, and one of them does indulge in that kind of rhetoric more than the other.
I dunno man, obviously I don’t like Russia for the dictatorship and propaganda aspect, but if we’re comparing hot German ladies to Russian ladies, someone should really call the Wagner boss for his opinion hahaha
Prigozhin is dead and old tho, I won’t trust his opinion in choosing a date material lol. All women are different, all have their preferences and kinks, and it’s not a question of a race or an ethnicity mostly, but your personal compatibility with this exact girl. Some russian women like what you ennjoy, some don’t, same with germanese.
Germanese. Whose got a cute sneeze?
I don’t think either government is any better than the other. I don’t think either set of Nazis is any better than the other.
Let’s get this perfectly straight:
There are no nazis in Ukraine. Ukraine is not behaving like a fascist country. So your downplaying of Russia is crap. You’re making up a middle ground that doesn’t exist. To what end I don’t know, but I’m starting to think you’re not merely ignorant but actually have an agenda.
Sorry, but there are nazis in Ukraine. Lots of them. As in any slavic country.
The difference is: their government doesn’t support them and is now under offence by a country that dismisses them having any identity.
You’re making up a middle ground that doesn’t exist.
I hardly think “fuck Nazis” is middle ground.
Strawman. :D
wrong
your downplaying of Russia is crap.
I didn’t do that
There are no nazis in Ukraine.
that’s a lie
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Russian Nazis don’t make Ukrainian Nazis any better
Yes there are stupid people everywhere. In most places they aren’t literally running the country.
in most places they aren’t being integrated into the military.
Are you suggesting that the Russian military isn’t part of the Russian government, which is doing pogroms against gays?
I’m saying most places don’t integrate neo-Nazi units. I didn’t say anything about Russia.
Most countries aren’t fighting in an existential war either, sometimes one must take the allies they can get. You seem to be implying that Azov’s existence means something about Ukrainian national policy though, which is totally wrong. Zelensky is Jewish, and as others have pointed out to you Azov is shrinking and its members being integrated into other units:
The regiment’s size was estimated to be around 2,500 combatants in 2017, and around 900 in 2022
sometimes one must take the allies they can get.
it’s one thing to send them to the front lines with slingshots, it’s another entirely to let them poison your own ranks.
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if a military is knowingly comprised of Nazis, that military shouldn’t exist.
It’s a bit unsettling how this statement resembles whataboutism often employed by Russian politicians to brush off any criticism
I’m not downplaying any criticism of Russia. fascism is always bad.
People want to be treated like human beings regardless of who they love? Yes, that’s a dangerously extreme view. Wanting to exterminate them all is perfectly normal, however.
“Seriously? I’m being arrested for being gay?” Extremely gay.
Sad news for Russia. If only they made matchmaking lists instead of hit lists
Where is that from?
“Seriously? I’m being arrested for being gay?”
“Extremely gay.”
Looks legit. I wonder what will happen to all those soviet-era daycares "Rainbow"s?
Absolutely hilarious huh
Ah yeah, the daily reminder that Russia has indeed become the comical evil country as it was always portrayed in Tom Clancys books, if not worse…
Twin Clancy that’s an old name I haven’t heard in ages
Twin Clancy, that’s a name I never heard before 😅
Dude you have no idea, I’ve got so many doppelgangers lol
clubgoers’ documents were checked and photographed by the security services
That’s the worst part. Being on any list of this state is a danger. Especially when they want another batch of bodies to once again storm Avdyivka. Hope they can nope-out from all possible traps. It’s just… it would be totally spelled out they are here because they are gay, and it means a faith worse than death. Place is cursed.
… and once they have rounded up and sent every minority into mandatory service for the war effort, there will be nothing left of the arts, sciences and cultural diversity, that makes a society blossom. They are undoing themselves, they don’t need anybody’s help.
Russia has had this problem for decades, even before the collapse of the Soviet Union this was a problem, who would want to live in communist Russia when you could live in a democracy in the west instead, and get paid for the privilege? Anyone with a brain left. After all, all the people smuggling through the Berlin wall was going in one direction.
But yeah their current actions are making it far worse.
Putin doesn’t care about the future of Russia though, he only cares about his legacy. The Ukrainian invasion was supposed to be the start of the second Soviet Union. The plan was to also invade places like Poland (of course that was a terrible plan that would have almost certainly resulted in the third world war but there you go). To fall at the first hurdle like this is particularly embarrassing and dangerous because it makes him look weak, and in Russia you do not want to look weak because if you do you end up dead eventually.
If Putin manages to die of old age I’ll be amazed
Decades? Centuries! They are like these since centuries! And they convert the occuppied people to be and act like them too. For example here in hungary, a lot of people who lived and were young under soviet occupation, want to turn back to those times, so they vote on orbán’s fidesz, and his comrades, who building back the feudal-commie style dictatoric regime.
It’s what fascists do. Franco did it, Hitler, Pinochet, etc. anything that can be perceived as subversive must be taken care of.
Russia has been doing and undoing itself the whole history. Meanwhile, who suffers? The minorities. You could compile a list of cultures they destroyed across Siberia, the Pontic Steppe and the Caucasus. And this process is still ongoing.
History is destined to repeat itself…
Hexbear and lemmygrad be like: “Russia is just avoiding a potential color revolution.”
Actual quotes from Hexbears that I got when discussing Russia with them:
“Those reactionary shitstains [the Russian government] has little to be proud of.”
“Russia is extremly Reactionary […] thats why Russia has a Real Problem with “White Supremacy” , [and] no problems with hunting down LGBTQ+ […]”
Now I don’t exactly see anybody on Hexbear presently discussing this particular bit of news about crackdowns on LGBT+, but I’ll go post about this news on Hexbear and see how the people there react. I have a feeling it’s going to be consistent with my previous experiences discussing Russia with Hexbears, which is also going to be the reaction that I’d expect from an instance that skews heavily LGBT+.
My experience has been exactly the opposite. They go out of their way to defend Russia and China and will hardly utter a word of criticism against either.
Here’s the thread I made on Hexbear.
https://hexbear.net/post/1232126
Four comments as of me writing this comment:
Putin really is a big fan of the Russian Empire. He’s even doing his own pogroms that will inevitably lead to a brain drain.
Russia is so fucked. People who identified as not-religious has been constantly falling from since 1991 from 60% to 20%. Orthodox Christianity from 30% to 70%. Russian youth (16-29 yo) are 75% religious (62% orthodox) https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2014/02/10/russians-return-to-religion-but-not-to-church/
Man, fuck Gorbachev for allowing the USSR to be dissolved by the west.
[an emoji titled “russia-cool”, depicting a burning Russian flag]
So yeah, if you’re looking for Hexbears criticizing Russia, then there you go.
Also, if you are Russian LGBT you need to leave the country NOW. Germany is taking in asylums so there’s a way out.
I’m confused. Don’t they want to leave Nato countries? Why not go to the next best thing to them, China?
I can only assume it’s for reasons such as:
Language: there is a very large Russian/FSU diaspora in Germany, while there is only a very small Russian community in China; and LGBT+ Russians are more likely to be proficient in English than in Chinese. It then follows that integrating into society and accessing services would be easier in Germany than in China, since Germany has a high English proficiency, and a large enough Russian population for many services to be provided in that language, or for Russophones to be able to find community on the basis of shared first language. German itself, of course, is also more similar to English and Russian than it is to Chinese.
The state of LGBT+ rights: rights for LGBT+ people are better in Germany than in China. This is not to erase the strides that China has made in terms of LGBT+ rights, nor the difficulties that LGBT+ people face in Germany and the very real possibility of regression as right-wing sentiment grows in Germany; but it’s also just a fact that LGBT+ Hexbears obviously acknowledge, that it’s in many ways just easier to be LGBT+ in the core than in the periphery or semi-periphery. It sucks, but that’s the way it is, for now.
Ease of applying for asylum: becoming a refugee in China is more difficult than becoming a refugee in Germany. Last I checked, China does not officially grant asylum, and has all refugees living in the country processed by the UNHCR. Germany, on the other hand, does grant asylum. While it’s obviously a good thing that people can flee from dangerous situations and seek asylum in another country, and China really should grant official asylum to refugees; one should be aware that systemically, the imperial core’s policy towards refugees is a form of economic domination over the imperial periphery, meant to provide themselves with cheap labor and drain the capital of the periphery.
China does not need more communists: it’s not like it’s a bad thing to move to China by any means — there’s a lot of good that can be done there — but it’s also not a bad thing to move to the imperial core in order to fight the good fight “in the heart of the enemy”. That’s more people to do activism, more people to join and contribute to organizations, and so forth: if we want to build socialism around the whole world, obviously we’ll want to live around the whole world.
I dunno, these are just some of my thoughts on potential reasons why an LGBT+ Russian socialist might prefer to take refuge in Germany rather than China… Like, it could’ve also just been that Kaplya just stated the name of the first country Kaplya thought of, and the comment wasn’t meant to be read into to this extent, but either way it’s a good writing exercise.
Or, you know, it’s because nobody wants to immigrate to China? Ever notice that unlike Europe and Canada and Australia and the US, China doesn’t have an immigration problem? I wonder why that is?
In case anyone wants to know, there have been over 40k undocumented Chinese immigrants to the US this year alone, and the numbers are growing. Fortunately they are pretty easily able to claim asylum and are easily integrated into existing Chinese-American communities.
It’s so strange that we don’t see any Americans immigrating to China.
Man, fuck Gorbachev for allowing the USSR to be dissolved by the west.
What on Earth does this even mean?
No idea. Letter from mental asylum?
Seems like they are mostly concerned with connecting “Russia bad” to liberalism, the ideology which is actually doing the most for LGBT rights. So even in contrition, they push misinformation and information warfare.
liberalism, the ideology which is actually doing to most for LGBT rights.
Just so that you’re aware: liberalism here refers to the belief in market economies and the right to private property. There is a bit more to liberalism, naturally, but that’s the main point. So whenever you see Hexbears talk about “libs” or “liberals”, rather than applying whatever American definition or preconception of the word “liberalism” that you may have, instead think, “someone who supports the free market and private property”… And indeed, the liberal parties in Russia are right-wing and deeply conservative: “liberal” non est “progressive”. Decouple those terms in your mind. You can have liberal progressives and liberal conservatives alike if you’re not using “liberal” as a synonym of “progressive”, like Americans tend to do.
Furthermore, LGBT+ criticisms of capitalism have a history stretching back even before Stonewall. Harry Whyte’s letter to Stalin in 1934, which criticizes the regress of gay rights in the USSR while also analyzing the position of gays in capitalism at the time, stands out. Leslie Feinberg (1949-2014) is another important figure in the history of LGBT+ communism. You might find Feinberg’s Lavender and Red to be particularly interesting, as it lays out a history of the intersection of LGBT+ rights movements and leftism.
Just so you’re aware: liberalism is the European enlightenment philosophy which holds that individual liberty and civil freedom is foundational to the curation of political agency and democratic self determination. This ML reduction to “liberalism is everything I don’t like” is factually incorrect and, like I said, intentional misinformation. Or more realistically, just bad political science, which is what most of us have come to expect from hexbears.
Russian oligarchy is in no way, shape, or form related to the belief that democracy is sacred, and political agency is a necessary condition thereof.
I think they were referring to difference between classical liberalism (usually implied by “liberalism” term in Europe) and social liberalism (usually implied in the US). The European enlightenment philosophy sounds like something that was a basis for both but contemporary state may be far from the original ideals.
As opposed to you reducing liberalism to everything you do like, of course. How’s that “sacred democracy and political agency” working out in practice? How are you enjoying your “individual liberty”?
But the right to private property is as important as the right to your bodily autonomy! If you can own nothing then prepare to die losing your body and your mind. Imagine that, a communist alien that will take everything, even your mind from you!
The blob will have no mercy on us! Burn it to death with fire if we have to
Just so that you’re aware, that’s a bullshit definition of liberalism and no one is under any obligation to cede it to authoritarian liars and chumps. Any legitimate definition of liberalism has also to include a fundamental respect for basic human rights and the consent of the governed. Liberalism stands in antithesis to authoritarianism and that’s precisely why the hexbear bozos hate it so much.
How exactly do I revoke my consent?
So they’re not even consistent and you trot that out like we’re supposed to somehow respect it? Call it what it is; intellectual dishonesty. Those people are intellectual contortionists because they don’t actually have a coherent ideology that’s defensible in the light of basic human rights. It’s all authoritarian bullshit and the sooner you realize that, the better off you’ll be.
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I second your experience. Additionally, if you disrupt their echo chamber too much, they’ll delete your comments and ban you. This has happened repeatedly when trying to have civil discussions like this one. They justify it as preventing misinformation so I have yet to see a fair debate on there.
Which is why they said it’s not being discussed much over there.
They don’t want to defend it, but they can’t bring themselves to be critical of Russia either, so they just don’t speak up.
My thread on Hexbear
It’s because they are campists. They don’t actually care about egalitarianism. Or leftism.
Or stateists. Well, stateists usually call themselves nationalists, who they are not.
Those slimy bootlicking fucks on hexbear I imagine are mostly fortunate Russians that haven’t been sent to the front line. I wonder if they feel anything watching their country men die in dirt while posting pig balls on the internet. Strange fucking world. I’d post this on hexbear, but I’ve just been banned by them, typical spineless fascists.
Also, if you are Russian LGBT you need to leave the country NOW. Germany is taking in asylums so there’s a way out.
This one got me confused. Flee to a Nato country that they hate?
Who says gay Russians hate NATO countries? And for that matter, who says most Russians do regardless of sexual orientation?
I’d imagine if I hated the authoritarian autocrat of my country, I’d naturally align with countries that hated the autocrat too. Especially if said countries were offering to save my life and give me the freedom to live how I wish (so long as I’m not hurting others).
Russians are not a monolith, but a lot of other Russian expats (for economic reasons) are causing issues for very well agreeing with Putin too much on non-economic issues. I know one such Hungarian in the Netherlands, who begged his colleagues to vote for Wild Geeters, because of Orbán.
Revolution is politically inconvenient – it’s a color revolution
Revolution fits my ideology – it’s a righteous uprising that confirms my ideology is superior
Did they think the guys were gonna rise up, form a gayocracy?
Edit: angry tankies down voting their ridiculous beliefs being talked about
No, they just take a far-right government appropriating left-wing terminology in good faith, which they did since the 1920’s.
Like the sacred band of Thebes, but they’re a government body instead of an army platoon.
Wouldn’t lemmygrad be pro-revolution?
I dunno if anyone is interested but of you got some spare coins laying around the Canadian based charity Rainbow Refugee has been helping get out threatened LGBTQIA+ folks from multiple countries including Russia for quite a while now by arranging sponsorships and legal support and advice for LGBTQIA asylum seekers. If you know anyone looking to get out or would like to donate here’s a link :
My daughter is queer and if Trump wins, we will probably have to seek refuge in Canada. I have an uncle there, which will also help, but this is a good resource. Thanks.
Nothing happened to lgbt people when Trump was in office. It won’t happen if he gets voted back in. Like Trump or not, he’s never been anti-lgbt.
Fuck off, liar. Transgender ban in the military against the advice of generals in easily the most obvious one.
The best you could say is that he let several states set up ways to systematically genocide LGBT people, (cough cough Don’t Say Gay) but he also actively fought to take away several of their rights, so that would still be a mischaracterization.
Trump wouldn’t give a shit if every LGBT person on earth was dead, he’d just find new minorities to go after.
Trump is anti anyone who doesn’t conform to his view of how people should be. This is especially problematic because he also doesn’t trust intelligence, and of course to Trump, if you can successfully open a crisp packet you’re considered dangerously intelligent.
Oh yeah. Totally an ally.
https://www.hrc.org/news/the-list-of-trumps-unprecedented-steps-for-the-lgbtq-community
People said that last time trump won and literally nobody actually followed through
I was too poor for it to be a option personally, I’m still trying lol. Leaving a country isn’t exactly a easy, straightforward thing.
Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s an option for me to leave at all. But I can set up a “station” for people passing through on their way out.
Exactly my point. Canada is also stupid expensive compared to the US with no good jobs to pay for it.
Oh that’s your point?
Yeah nobody is moving here because it’s no better here. People who say they are moving to Canada have done zero research
Oh, okay. No reason to worry then.
Oh, so you checked up with every person who said they’d move and you personally know that they didn’t?
We had loads of Americans move to our part of Canada from Trumpistan. They even stayed after he was voted out. Some good people.
Lots of people have been moving across the border for residency. Canadian politicians have been complaining about it.
Thank you for contributing something helpful and useful to this conversation.
Meanwhile “pro lgbtq” hexbears keep licking Putins boots
That’s because they’re all 12 years old and have no brain. When you talk to them it’s quite clear they don’t actually know what they’re talking about. My favourite thing to do is quote events and dates at them of things that that didn’t happen, and most of the time they don’t pick up on it.
when you argue they will just post the pig poop balls
An obvious sign of an intellectual superior individual. I don’t think.
That sissy, lemme.ml isn’t exactly any better
i haven’t seen anything bad on this instance, and it doesn’t constantly defederate from random instances (unlike instances such as lemmy.world, a while back it tried to block lemmy.dbzer0.com)
Gold medal in olympic mental gymnastics
Yea it’s such a weird gymnastics move
extremist organization
Of course, why did nobody ever think of targetting the President of Homosexual International?! Perhaps a drone strike? I bet he’s hiding in a school or hospital somewhere in Ukraine.
It’s perfectly reasonable to blow up UN schools if one claims there are gay terrorist tunnels under them…
/s
Extremist movement, not organization. Organization needs to be registered as one, while extremist movement is from amendments to “extremism” laws, that were used to ban Golos movement first.
With everything going on with Russia they still have time for this bullshit!
That’s kinda the whole point of this bullshit. Russia’s entire history is “things go bad? find an enemy and attack them.” This distracts the populace and makes the ruler (at least theoretically) look “strong”. This is why “war” is the answer to almost any problem in Russia. For Nicholas II this didn’t work out though, when he attacked Japan hoping for a quick victory, but ended up losing and exacerbating problems at home, which then led to the collapse of Russia.
It’s a core foundation of Fascism to define “us” and “them” groups, blame the “them” and if in power followup those words with actual actions against said “them”.
Sex being the thing which generates the most tension in peoples’ minds in present day society - we pretty much all want it and yet we’re taught that it’s somehow “impure” and interiorize all sorts of boundaries around it and judgements on people who don’t obbey said boundaries - it’s only natural that people who are a minority in practicing some sexual practices that the majority does not are chosen as “them”.
We might have the tech, but socially and psychologically most of humanity are barelly changed from cavemen days and we might have even gone backwards (there was a time when nakedness was far less “frowned upon”), so cross these two of the biggest disfunctions in the psyche of many - sex and tribalism - and you end up with this kind of shit.
It’s a core foundation of Fascism to define “us” and “them” groups,
I’m pretty sure this is just a fundamental way to understand groups, any groups. How would a group exist without an “us” and a “them”?
The error in that argument is oversimplification.
It’s not just the grouping people, it’s the how its done.
For starters, it only makes logical sense to group people on actions they actually commit or committed - say, “this person has repeatedly stollen things, hence he is a thief” - because it’s a judgement on their actions, while it makes no logical sense group them on something else and then judge them as a group for something unrelated - say, “this person was born with a certain skin color hence he is a thief” - because it’s quite literally prejudice (the judging somebody for acts they have not committed).
The second part is simplifying it into “us” and “them” - it’s quite literally mathematically impossible to, in any situation with more than 2 humans, have 2 or fewer generic classifications (worse, as people actually change how they act as their life experiences change them, so they would change classification). This is because there are so many different things of importance in which people can chose to act in different ways (and for many such important things there are even more choices than merelly 2), that any realistic grouping of humans on anything more generic than a single behaviour - such as thieving - would yield billions of groups (pretty much one per person) because there are just way too many combinations of preferred choices.
It’s not possible to have a genuine division of humans in a general sense into a mere 2, “us” and “them”, and the lie in such division is further compounded when action judgements are passed on all individuals of an entire group which was defined by any criteria other than having commited said actions.
And then to top all this up, they cast those 2 groups as adversarial, thus justifying violence by their group against the other group.
PS: By the way, it’s not just Fascists who do this kind of prejudiced grouping of people, but what’s more unique about that ideology is the tendency for the splitting to immediatelly or eventually end up with a mere 2 groups which are deemed in opposition to each other in everything that matters and were the Fascists are all in the group (“us”) that’s pre-judged as “good” and the others are in the group (“them”) prejudged “bad”.
You’ll see, for example, Liberals also doing the grouping of people on arbitrary non-action characteristics, complete with “good” and “bad” prejudgements based on group membership (though the words used are usually “victim” and “oppressor” rather than “good” and “bad”), but they’re usually divided into many groups (an ever growing list, even) and the group in which the Liberal individual is not necessarilly one of the groups deemed “good” (whilst the Fascists will always put themselves in the “good” group).
The error in that argument is oversimplification.
It’s not just the grouping people, it’s the how its done.
Exactly
Well, when there’s only so many people in the group you know them and that’s enough. Even if one lives on an island with population of 20 and knows nothing about outside world, one would recognize those 20 as his group, I’d wager
How I spent summer. Essay.
In the morning we with my mom went to beach. There we’ve seen jellyfish(recognized as unwanted organization, included in the list of foreign agents).
Then it rained(recognized as unwanted organization, included in the list of foreign agents). After rain came rainbow(which is element of extremist movement symbolics).
Also mom showed me memorial in city center. Memorial is included in list of foreign agents, its activity in Russia is suspended by the court’s decision
First they came for the >!socialists!< democrats, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a >!socialist!< democrats.
Then they came for the >!trade unionists!< journalist, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a >!trade unionist!< journalist.
Then they came for the >!Jews!< Gays, and I did not speak out— Because I was not >!a Jew!< gay.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Udaltsov is a communist only if you think that the Soviet Union was communist. The reason for his constant arrests was his opposition to Putin.
I originally wanted to post recent arrest of communists, but didn’t find it in first try. Anyway, no sane communist will support Putin.
EDIT: Interesting… I wanted to say that Putin arrests communists too.
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All very deep, except the Russians probably arrest or kill anyone who speaks out, so it’s not exactly as simple as that.
And the Nazis didn’t?
The Nazis didn’t kill their own. So no, not initially
You should really brush up on your history. It’s estimated that up to 77,000 Germans who were a part of the resistance were executed and an additional 800,000 were arrested. You’re right that Nazis didn’t kill other Nazis, they killed Germans who resisted Nazism.
https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofge0000unse_i6r5/page/n5/mode/2up
Oh, come on, it was a lawless land ruled by violence. Everybody could find themselves before a firing squad (after a few days of relentless torture, of course) or just be beaten to death, party membership wasn’t a guarantee against this. That was pretty intentional. That was the Nazi idea of a proper society - absolute despotism, they were also huge fans of the Middle-Eastern examples of such.
If you spoke out against the regime, you could easily be imprisoned or executed, blonde hair and blue-eyes or not.
The fuck is this bullshit?!.. It’s as if some American schoolboy of the dumber kind with a confederate flag on the wall thinking Wehrmacht was “honorable” and didn’t know shit wrote this.
Also have you read what the judge said on Remarque’s sister’s trial, after which she was executed?
Something like “your brother regrettably has evaded us, but you haven’t.” That was the only reason.
I think you should also read something about courts in Nazi Germany. There wasn’t even any pretense at justice.
Are you historically illiterate or a troll?
It’s often said “The first country the Nazis subjugated was Germany.”
Not even Nazis were safe from Nazis.
*not even Germans were safe from Nazis
Also they to ban Golos movement first
