My personal opinion is that the results of the experiment are that Lemmy is not a good platform for community building. I’m glad we gave it a shot, but I probably won’t be using it anymore either way for a few reasons:

• The moderation just isn’t very good (we still have Nazi imagery and accounts on the server from the early spam wave with no way to purge them, though they are blocked and can’t post anymore but the images and what not are still being served as far as I can tell)
• The UI is generally confusing and hard to use, things aren’t logically grouped, etc.
• The federation capabilities don’t seem to actually be very good (I’m sure this will improve, but there’s other software out there that’s good already so if we wanted to try this again I think we should use something else instead)
• Generally buggy/over-javascripty UI
• Generally hard to follow new content on Lemmy: it tries to imitate reddit too much I think so stuff that’s “Hot”, whatever that means, get surfaced but you have to constantly switch over to a non-algorithmic timeline if you just want to see what you’ve missed

I’d still like to find a way to build community between XMPP projects, but I’ve started to think it may be better if projects interact with other existing instances more that aren’t focused on XMPP, this spreads the message a bit better. I forget who made this argument early on, so apologies for not letting you know directly, but I think the experiment has brought me around to this way of thinking as well. I will follow up after we decide what to do with a list of possible places that it might be good for XMPP projects to join if I can remember to put it together.

I think the most sensible option is to shut it down. Similar to the Discourse instance we had on joinjabber.org in the beginning, it just doesn’t get much use.

For outreach it also makes more sense to join an existing ActivityPub platform like we did with our JJ account on the indieweb.social Mastodon instance.

Maybe at some point a dogfooded Libervia based XMPP forum might be cool to have, but more as an example to show what is possible.

Anyway… there are some existing XMPP communities on other Lemmy instances, so we can continue to share some XMPP related stuff there. I might set up a bot that re-posts from an RSS feed soon.

RIP

I think the general consensus so far is that the instance should shut down, but there have been a few commenters suggesting that they want it to stay. I tend to think people far undervalue the cost of hosting their own services, so to try and make it a bit clearer if someone did want to keep it up I think they’d need to consider the following factors:

• Multiple people to cover the cost of hosting, this needs to scale with the amount of traffic
• Multiple volunteers to handle operations, this needs to scale with the amount of traffic
• Multiple volunteers to handle moderation and accept registrations, this needs to scale with the number of users
• Someone willing to promote the instance (assuming we want it to grow, this may or may not be the case and it’s fine if we want it to just be a small space for a few XMPP projects), this workload will inversely scale with the number of users
• Some sort of governance and accountability model; this would need to scale with the number of users

Some of this we’ve gotten away without so far, and some of it can start small and scale to multiple volunteers later if the instance grows, but I really think you need a few people on all of them to prevent burnout and keep the community sustainable. I do think there’s harm in just leaving the community around to languish: this makes it a target for spammers if it’s poorly moderated, contributes to making the network look large but dead (as opposed to small and growing), and, if it becomes unstable, may create a bad experience for anyone using it when it’s down a lot and there aren’t volunteers to fix it.

If we have trusted volunteers (or maybe we can find a way to hand over the database dump without giving away anyones personal data, reset passwords and purge profiles or something; this is less important to figure out right this moment and we can figure it out only if/when we go to do the handover) for any of this, I think we can probably hand the reins over to them. If not, we can’t keep the community going whether people want to or not :)

Removed by mod

I made a new XMPP community on my Lemmy instance, as the one on lemmy.ml kinda broke due to some URL problems with the original name. Find it here: https://slrpnk.net/c/xmpp

Is there any harm in keeping it?

Lemmy as a platform seems to be growing lately. Assuming you can find a host, and enough people to moderate it, then I vote to keep it. Invite other XMPP organizations to use it and see how it goes.

Unless the cost, financially, or in person time to run it is simply too high to be worth it.

@sam I think now might be the perfect time to see if this instance could actually get some traction as there is a huge push for people to use Lemmy all the sudden. And also a bunch of new apps out that make it easier to use then ever.