I understand that the whole “do you want a solution or to just talk about it” is well intentioned, but even if what I want is the latter now that you’ve asked me that I would feel worse for just trying to bring it up to talk about it. It’s hard to justify I guess, but the statement feels condescending when you are in that socially vulnerable position.
Edit: I have attempted to explain this further below, but again, it can be hard for me to understand why I feel a certain way and I don’t understand how others can easily.
Having dated crazy, the answer I was told was that as their soul mate I should understand them perfectly and cater to their every whim instinctively and without discussion.
Which is a lot to ask for after 3 months of dating.
Something tells me there isn’t a perfect answer doe that person. “Someone asked me how they can support me, so now I don’t want help because that seems condescending” sounds like the kind of thing you get from someone who says they’re fine, but isn’t, and they’re mad you don’t already know why they’re not fine.
My experienced dating a socially anxious person is that there is no perfect response, anything you say needs exclusion qualifiers and follow-up for reassurance purposes. Love her tho.
An “emotion phase” mindset tends to expect you to know about their state and reacts badly if you don’t join them there.
A “solution focused” mindset can easily talk and not react badly about a misjudgement on your part.
So if you want to be safe, then your opening line should always presume the other person is in the emotional phase. The response will tell you if you’re right. And if you’re not right then the other person is in a position to negotiate without being upset about it.
This is such a good question that it’s kind of blowing my mind.
First off, it’s actually a shit message to only include “my shawarma fell apart” with no other context. There’s not even punctuation! Like, give me some textual non-verbals I can pick up on.
Second, this is so typical of neuro-normies: send a message with no social cues and somehow expect the recipient to ace the response.
So what’s the ideal response? I dunno. I’d probably reply with something like “I know, right?! My butthole is so itchy right now. Could this day be any worse?”
I think in the above scenario it would be safe to assume it’s the “just talk about it” scenario. With something as simple as food falling apart the person will be more than capable of solving it themselves if they needed to.
The fact that the answer ends up being “you need to assume based on the context” demonstrates exactly what the other comments are saying. Nobody is a mind reader, and it’s not generally a good idea to expect someone else to assume the same things you do, especially if that other person didn’t experience it firsthand. Maybe it works for you, but it’s making things needlessly more complicated for other people
I tried to delve more into why I feel this way in another comment further down if you’re interested, but I understand the frustration behind your comment. Personally I think there are other ways to gauge someone’s feelings.
So you’re saying that they need to break up and never speak to each other ever again and that she needs to get a restraining order?? That a quite extreme
…now that you’ve asked me that I would feel worse for just trying to bring it up to talk about it
Why would you feel worse? If that’s what you need, just ask. There’s no point in hiding your feelings from the people you want to spend time with, unless you want to create unnecessary misunderstandings.
I didn’t say it makes sense, it’s hard to justify feelings all the time, but I can give it a go. Perhaps we can work out why I think this way. These are guesses, I don’t know the root cause.
It can sound kind of arrogant I guess, like that person can solve something you can’t. It also sounds emotionless and robotic when they say it.
It could also sound like if you don’t want a solution then your complaining is less valid. With a partner you trust I suppose this might not be true, but with some friends I have they would immediately switch off if it’s the latter I guess.
And a much more simple guess - most of the time I just don’t know which one of those I want, and I haven’t got to that stage yet. I find it very difficult to pinpoint why I get certain emotions and what I want to do with them, that whole process doesn’t make sense to me and I don’t understand why all these other replies seem to be able to do that and are saying it’s my fault. Perhaps this is a spectrum thing.
IDK if the thing will suit you, but therapy helped me to process and talk more openly about my feelings, so situations like the one mentioned above can be dealt in a less “awkward” way
Some people jump to problem solving immediately when they find out about a problem. Others will sit and contemplate how they are feeling about a problem.
This text sounds like a compromise that has been worked out because she was getting frustrated that he just jumps into problem solving when all she wants to hear is affirmation of her feelings. He’s still got work to do, but he’s clearly trying.
Source: this is exactly a conversation my wife and I had
Exactly the same for me.
When my wife had a problem, I always started to solve it. “Okay, did you do this and that? Tomorrow we’ll try x. Maybe if we call X” etc.-
I needed to learn for months not to do it at the beginning of our relationship. She said she just needed to rant, to talk about it and didn’t want a solution.
Which, given that I’m an engineer, is very difficult to do. I don’t really see problems as problems, mostly just tasks that need solution.
Yeah, I mean I know getting annoyed by it would achieve nothing so I wouldn’t react in a negative manner to them, I would just discuss it with them later that it bothered me and could maybe try a different method if it’s needed for them.
This is what I do. If I don’t want solutions, I always start with “This is just a rant, I don’t need solutions, but…”
Usually that exact quote, so it’s completely unambiguous. If I didn’t start with something like that, 99% chance I’ll be okay with presented solutions.
I’m not really sure what that specific term means, but I do know that if you spend a few hours planning for, acquiring ingredients for and preparing a recipe it can be quite disappointing if it doesn’t work out and I don’t think that necessarily means you need to “see a therapist” haha.
Lol I know what shawarma is, it’s that thing you slice meat off of that goes in kebabs. I meant I wasn’t sure specifically what socially vulnerable means
I think you’re unintentionally reading/framing this in the condescending key. The way you rephrased it it does sound condescending, but in the screenshot it’s mostly just silly and caring. You might be too on guard here
I can totally see that. It could easily come across like that. Like… SIGH 🙄 “emotion or solution this time?” 😒 … Right?
I could also imagine if the other person is being earnest and with good delivery and wording and especially if this “protocol” is agreed upon beforehand, it could work. For some. Maybe?
Idk. It can be equally exasperating not knowing what is the right mode to support as well as not getting the support I need.
I understand that the whole “do you want a solution or to just talk about it” is well intentioned, but even if what I want is the latter now that you’ve asked me that I would feel worse for just trying to bring it up to talk about it. It’s hard to justify I guess, but the statement feels condescending when you are in that socially vulnerable position.
Edit: I have attempted to explain this further below, but again, it can be hard for me to understand why I feel a certain way and I don’t understand how others can easily.
Just out of curiosity, what does the perfect reply look like in the above scenario
Since even asking is an issue, my suggestion is to be a divination wizard with specilization in mind reading
Having dated crazy, the answer I was told was that as their soul mate I should understand them perfectly and cater to their every whim instinctively and without discussion.
Which is a lot to ask for after 3 months of dating.
Although for people you know well this divination isnt all that difficult anymore.
Something tells me there isn’t a perfect answer doe that person. “Someone asked me how they can support me, so now I don’t want help because that seems condescending” sounds like the kind of thing you get from someone who says they’re fine, but isn’t, and they’re mad you don’t already know why they’re not fine.
My experienced dating a socially anxious person is that there is no perfect response, anything you say needs exclusion qualifiers and follow-up for reassurance purposes. Love her tho.
I’d go with a “Oh no, but I’m sure it will still be delicious!”
But what if she was looking for practical shawarma reassembly advice?
Good question, but she then should say so, no unwanted advice will be given!
I’d go with “It’s not a true shawarma unless it falls apart. That’s how you know it’s good.”
An “emotion phase” mindset tends to expect you to know about their state and reacts badly if you don’t join them there.
A “solution focused” mindset can easily talk and not react badly about a misjudgement on your part.
So if you want to be safe, then your opening line should always presume the other person is in the emotional phase. The response will tell you if you’re right. And if you’re not right then the other person is in a position to negotiate without being upset about it.
This makes sense to me as a social dynamic without reducing it to a prompt like above.
This is such a good question that it’s kind of blowing my mind.
First off, it’s actually a shit message to only include “my shawarma fell apart” with no other context. There’s not even punctuation! Like, give me some textual non-verbals I can pick up on.
Second, this is so typical of neuro-normies: send a message with no social cues and somehow expect the recipient to ace the response.
So what’s the ideal response? I dunno. I’d probably reply with something like “I know, right?! My butthole is so itchy right now. Could this day be any worse?”
That isn’t a bad response imo
That is so kind of you to say
I think in the above scenario it would be safe to assume it’s the “just talk about it” scenario. With something as simple as food falling apart the person will be more than capable of solving it themselves if they needed to.
The fact that the answer ends up being “you need to assume based on the context” demonstrates exactly what the other comments are saying. Nobody is a mind reader, and it’s not generally a good idea to expect someone else to assume the same things you do, especially if that other person didn’t experience it firsthand. Maybe it works for you, but it’s making things needlessly more complicated for other people
I tried to delve more into why I feel this way in another comment further down if you’re interested, but I understand the frustration behind your comment. Personally I think there are other ways to gauge someone’s feelings.
So you’re saying, if he really cared about her, he’d know?
No, this was not what I meant
So you’re saying that they need to break up and never speak to each other ever again and that she needs to get a restraining order?? That a quite extreme
Why would you feel worse? If that’s what you need, just ask. There’s no point in hiding your feelings from the people you want to spend time with, unless you want to create unnecessary misunderstandings.
I didn’t say it makes sense, it’s hard to justify feelings all the time, but I can give it a go. Perhaps we can work out why I think this way. These are guesses, I don’t know the root cause.
It can sound kind of arrogant I guess, like that person can solve something you can’t. It also sounds emotionless and robotic when they say it.
It could also sound like if you don’t want a solution then your complaining is less valid. With a partner you trust I suppose this might not be true, but with some friends I have they would immediately switch off if it’s the latter I guess.
And a much more simple guess - most of the time I just don’t know which one of those I want, and I haven’t got to that stage yet. I find it very difficult to pinpoint why I get certain emotions and what I want to do with them, that whole process doesn’t make sense to me and I don’t understand why all these other replies seem to be able to do that and are saying it’s my fault. Perhaps this is a spectrum thing.
IDK if the thing will suit you, but therapy helped me to process and talk more openly about my feelings, so situations like the one mentioned above can be dealt in a less “awkward” way
FYI that’s definitely a you thing.
Some people jump to problem solving immediately when they find out about a problem. Others will sit and contemplate how they are feeling about a problem.
This text sounds like a compromise that has been worked out because she was getting frustrated that he just jumps into problem solving when all she wants to hear is affirmation of her feelings. He’s still got work to do, but he’s clearly trying.
Source: this is exactly a conversation my wife and I had
Exactly the same for me. When my wife had a problem, I always started to solve it. “Okay, did you do this and that? Tomorrow we’ll try x. Maybe if we call X” etc.- I needed to learn for months not to do it at the beginning of our relationship. She said she just needed to rant, to talk about it and didn’t want a solution. Which, given that I’m an engineer, is very difficult to do. I don’t really see problems as problems, mostly just tasks that need solution.
Yeah, I mean I know getting annoyed by it would achieve nothing so I wouldn’t react in a negative manner to them, I would just discuss it with them later that it bothered me and could maybe try a different method if it’s needed for them.
I have friends that know to clarify for me. They’ll just drop in “I’m just venting” or say they’re not looking for a solution.
This is what I do. If I don’t want solutions, I always start with “This is just a rant, I don’t need solutions, but…”
Usually that exact quote, so it’s completely unambiguous. If I didn’t start with something like that, 99% chance I’ll be okay with presented solutions.
I think this is a good approach too
If shawarma falling apart makes you socially vulnerable maybe you should be seeing a therapist.
Let’s keep in mind the context and the relative severity of the situation here.
I’m not really sure what that specific term means, but I do know that if you spend a few hours planning for, acquiring ingredients for and preparing a recipe it can be quite disappointing if it doesn’t work out and I don’t think that necessarily means you need to “see a therapist” haha.
It’s similar to a burrito.
Lol I know what shawarma is, it’s that thing you slice meat off of that goes in kebabs. I meant I wasn’t sure specifically what socially vulnerable means
I think you’re unintentionally reading/framing this in the condescending key. The way you rephrased it it does sound condescending, but in the screenshot it’s mostly just silly and caring. You might be too on guard here
Well the alternative is to guess someone’s emotional state through text which will seem insensitive. At least the former will get an answer.
I can totally see that. It could easily come across like that. Like… SIGH 🙄 “emotion or solution this time?” 😒 … Right?
I could also imagine if the other person is being earnest and with good delivery and wording and especially if this “protocol” is agreed upon beforehand, it could work. For some. Maybe?
Idk. It can be equally exasperating not knowing what is the right mode to support as well as not getting the support I need.
I tried to go through it in more detail in a reply further down, but this is definitely one of the reasons it could be.
while I understand what you’re saying, shawarma falling apart is not a real crisis. lol
this is obviously a funny exchange.