I mean you just strawmanned too. I never said famines never happened anywhere… I obviously meant in the USSR and China, as we were speaking about those places.
And ok, we do agree then. The famines were natural but some policies made them worse. But we can’t deny some policies made them better, and indeed made famines in those places never happen again. Like machinization and collectivization. But yeah, Lysenko sucked. It was a huge mistake to allow him that much power.
And no. You can’t compare what Hitler or Andrew Jackson did to Stalin. Hitler inherited a failing industrial super power. Andrew Jackson expanded west? Not sure the point here.
And the world was heavily industrialising at the same time and rate as the USSR. The US, Germany, France, the UK all industrialised during a span of 100 years or more mostly during peacetime. The USSR industrialised MORE in a couple of decades under existential war.
And to say: look all the countries that were communist now hate Stalin! - is not the argument you think it is. It’s just a testament to the power of propaganda in the those countries since the end of the USSR, but also the power of counter-revolutionaries and reactionaries to maintain and create narratives within communist experiments even with “oppression”.
I think you’d find the history of anti-communists, monarchists and fascists in the USSR, in Russia and Ukraine for example, pretty interesting. How they hid for a few decades, but eventually started to earn space and political power due to anti-Stalinists (after Khrushchev but specially under Gorbachev).
I mean you just strawmanned too. I never said famines never happened anywhere… I obviously meant in the USSR and China, as we were speaking about those places.
And ok, we do agree then. The famines were natural but some policies made them worse. But we can’t deny some policies made them better, and indeed made famines in those places never happen again. Like machinization and collectivization. But yeah, Lysenko sucked. It was a huge mistake to allow him that much power.
And no. You can’t compare what Hitler or Andrew Jackson did to Stalin. Hitler inherited a failing industrial super power. Andrew Jackson expanded west? Not sure the point here.
And the world was heavily industrialising at the same time and rate as the USSR. The US, Germany, France, the UK all industrialised during a span of 100 years or more mostly during peacetime. The USSR industrialised MORE in a couple of decades under existential war.
And to say: look all the countries that were communist now hate Stalin! - is not the argument you think it is. It’s just a testament to the power of propaganda in the those countries since the end of the USSR, but also the power of counter-revolutionaries and reactionaries to maintain and create narratives within communist experiments even with “oppression”.
I think you’d find the history of anti-communists, monarchists and fascists in the USSR, in Russia and Ukraine for example, pretty interesting. How they hid for a few decades, but eventually started to earn space and political power due to anti-Stalinists (after Khrushchev but specially under Gorbachev).