I mean, I sorta get it. Identity politics are political and often divisive, and some people don’t want it in their escapism.
It’s not a perfect analogy, but if a role-playing game had a mandatory character-selection choice to choose if my character was pro-choice or pro-life, I could see myself mildly resenting it.
Not really a good example. A more apt example is if these people were getting angry that the character creator allowed a player to create a woman, or a person of colour. The game offering you a choice of pronouns is not asking you for a political opinion, it’s literally just an option to create a type of character that these people don’t think should exist.
And that’s the crux of it, they aren’t angry about pronouns, they’re angry about trans and non-binary people becoming normalised.
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political. Trans, non-binary, etc is, and normalizing it is political, regardless of if it’s right or wrong. I think that you’re correct and that it seems like something done as ammunition in the Culture War; normalizing identity politics rather than a design decision done out of a necessity to improve the quality of the game apart from that.
My earlier analogy was about having a pro-life/pro-choice option forced on you, but I guess to make it more accurate it would be more like the game just telling you that you’re pro-life as part of your character settings? Because it’s not just putting the politics in the game, it’s taking a strong side. Again, rightly or wrongly, I can see why some people would resent that in their escapism.
I guess my existence is “political” then, I guess I can’t exist in a space without having something “forced” on people.
We were male/female, now we’re women/men/other, that’s it. It’s a personal matter that we go through and we want to simply exist. That’s only “political” when your dealing with people who actively want to harm our rights. I cannot stress enough that these people shouldn’t be treated with respect as if they’re not trying to destroy people for a simple personal choice.
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political. Trans, non-binary, etc is, and normalizing it is political, regardless of if it’s right or wrong.
Women and black people getting the right to vote and be treated equally has always been “political” you fucking jackass.
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political.
I agree, they should not be, but people still try and make them political.
Trans, non-binary, etc is
No. Absolutely not. Trans people and non-binary people are types of people who exist. Exactly the same as men, women, people of colour, and so forth. They are no more or less political than those other types of people. People still make them political, but that’s exactly the same thing as with other groups.
My earlier analogy was about having a pro-life/pro-choice option forced on you, but I guess to make it more accurate it would be more like the game just telling you that you’re pro-life as part of your character settings? Because it’s not just putting the politics in the game, it’s taking a strong side. Again, rightly or wrongly, I can see why some people would reset that in their escapism.
You are mistaken. There is no political opinion here. None is being asked for, and none is being assigned. The character creator having additional options is just allowing players to make trans or non-binary characters. This isn’t asking you for a political opinion, it’s simply adding options to create more types of characters.
Which is why the bigots are upset. Because they don’t think those types of characters should be allowed to be made.
Your previous comments implied that there was a difference in type between the inclusion of women or people of colour, and the inclusion of trans of non-binary people.
There is a difference in magnitude of the controversy. But not a difference in type. Something can be more or less controversial, but it’s still the same type of controversy.
Yeah, it seems we agree. My stance was only ever that I can understand why some people would’ve wanted to remove political controversy from their escapism if it made them uncomfortable and added nothing to the gameplay itself.
If everything is political then it’s impossible to make a game that isn’t political. This is no more valid than someone complaining that including an option for skin tone is political.
being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political
Being a woman isn’t political… until I do it? Kinda seems like there’s no actually valid (sound? I forget the terminology) argument for how our existence is a problem, nor for how supporting or acknowledging our existence is a problem.
I don’t actually quite understand what you’re on about but it kinda seems like you’re arguing that allowing people to play characters that don’t match your preferences exactly is some kind of forced political thing and that’s kinda horsecrap, y’know?
Anyway I’m gonna go exist at that bigot up there now. Byeee ö/
Aside from you being transphobic, you should realize that the people complaining about pronouns are also the people who complain about the “replaced white people” and “female leaders” in the game. So I guess black people and women are also political, by your logic?
Terrible analogy. It’s just turning the binary male / female into non binary body types & pronouns to be more inclusive for those who fall outside the norm on the spectrum of things.
I wouldn’t. I mean, I hate Nazis but I don’t mind a game where I can choose to play as one (so long as the context makes sense like it’s a multiplayer WW2 game or Diso Elysium). It’s a fuckin’ choice. If you don’t like one of the options: Choose a different one.
I mean, I sorta get it. Identity politics are political and often divisive, and some people don’t want it in their escapism.
It’s not a perfect analogy, but if a role-playing game had a mandatory character-selection choice to choose if my character was pro-choice or pro-life, I could see myself mildly resenting it.
Not really a good example. A more apt example is if these people were getting angry that the character creator allowed a player to create a woman, or a person of colour. The game offering you a choice of pronouns is not asking you for a political opinion, it’s literally just an option to create a type of character that these people don’t think should exist.
And that’s the crux of it, they aren’t angry about pronouns, they’re angry about trans and non-binary people becoming normalised.
I dunno, being a man, woman, or black person isn’t political. Trans, non-binary, etc is, and normalizing it is political, regardless of if it’s right or wrong. I think that you’re correct and that it seems like something done as ammunition in the Culture War; normalizing identity politics rather than a design decision done out of a necessity to improve the quality of the game apart from that.
My earlier analogy was about having a pro-life/pro-choice option forced on you, but I guess to make it more accurate it would be more like the game just telling you that you’re pro-life as part of your character settings? Because it’s not just putting the politics in the game, it’s taking a strong side. Again, rightly or wrongly, I can see why some people would resent that in their escapism.
Trans people: Exist
Brainlets: “Is this politics??”
I guess my existence is “political” then, I guess I can’t exist in a space without having something “forced” on people.
We were male/female, now we’re women/men/other, that’s it. It’s a personal matter that we go through and we want to simply exist. That’s only “political” when your dealing with people who actively want to harm our rights. I cannot stress enough that these people shouldn’t be treated with respect as if they’re not trying to destroy people for a simple personal choice.
Women and black people getting the right to vote and be treated equally has always been “political” you fucking jackass.
I agree, they should not be, but people still try and make them political.
No. Absolutely not. Trans people and non-binary people are types of people who exist. Exactly the same as men, women, people of colour, and so forth. They are no more or less political than those other types of people. People still make them political, but that’s exactly the same thing as with other groups.
You are mistaken. There is no political opinion here. None is being asked for, and none is being assigned. The character creator having additional options is just allowing players to make trans or non-binary characters. This isn’t asking you for a political opinion, it’s simply adding options to create more types of characters.
Which is why the bigots are upset. Because they don’t think those types of characters should be allowed to be made.
Whether or not it should be, isn’t LGBT issues political/controversial?
As are women and people of colour, and their inclusion in media. These are all demographics of people. There is no difference.
There’s no difference between a movie casting a woman/black man as the main character, compared to casting a trans person?
No, there is no difference.
Your previous comments implied that there was a difference in type between the inclusion of women or people of colour, and the inclusion of trans of non-binary people.
There is a difference in magnitude of the controversy. But not a difference in type. Something can be more or less controversial, but it’s still the same type of controversy.
Yeah, it seems we agree. My stance was only ever that I can understand why some people would’ve wanted to remove political controversy from their escapism if it made them uncomfortable and added nothing to the gameplay itself.
Simply acknowledging LGBT exist
Of course it’s political. Politics aren’t just about things where there can be legitimate disagreement.
Acknowledging climate change is political. So is everything from basic public transport, better healthcare to if sexism and racism are even a thing.
It shouldn’t be. We also shouldn’t have a resurgence of actual fascists. But we do and it is.
Acknowledging reality is political? I mean I guess I knew that already, but seeing it put plainly into words is silly.
Shit, I’ll see if I can pose as a right wing grifter and see if I can convince them that wearing matching socks is part of the liberal agenda.
If everything is political then it’s impossible to make a game that isn’t political. This is no more valid than someone complaining that including an option for skin tone is political.
Being a woman isn’t political… until I do it? Kinda seems like there’s no actually valid (sound? I forget the terminology) argument for how our existence is a problem, nor for how supporting or acknowledging our existence is a problem.
I don’t actually quite understand what you’re on about but it kinda seems like you’re arguing that allowing people to play characters that don’t match your preferences exactly is some kind of forced political thing and that’s kinda horsecrap, y’know?
Anyway I’m gonna go exist at that bigot up there now. Byeee ö/
Aside from you being transphobic, you should realize that the people complaining about pronouns are also the people who complain about the “replaced white people” and “female leaders” in the game. So I guess black people and women are also political, by your logic?
The best bigots are the ones that tell on themselves, dontcha think?
Fuck off forever
Terrible analogy. It’s just turning the binary male / female into non binary body types & pronouns to be more inclusive for those who fall outside the norm on the spectrum of things.
I wouldn’t. I mean, I hate Nazis but I don’t mind a game where I can choose to play as one (so long as the context makes sense like it’s a multiplayer WW2 game or Diso Elysium). It’s a fuckin’ choice. If you don’t like one of the options: Choose a different one.