What do they know-all these scholars, all these philosophers, all the leaders of the world - about such as you? They have convinced themselves that man, the worst transgressor of all the species, is the crown of creation. All other creatures were created merely to provide him with food, pelts, to be tormented, exterminated. In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka.
- Isaac Bashevis Singer
People like you are why vegans are hated.
And slavery is why meat eaters are hated
Radicalism will only deter people from your goal.
If you eat meat, it’s because you believe might makes right and genetic superiority is destiny. Those are fascist beliefs and people who eat meat should be ashamed to have them.
I honestly think you’re just a troll trying to make vegans look bad.
Doesn’t school start back soon? You probably have some summer reading you should be finishing up instead.
So are you one of those people who doesn’t know the seasons are the other way around in the southern hemisphere, or are you pretending half the globe doesn’t exist on purpose?
So you don’t deny you’re a troll.
So you don’t deny you’re an ignorant American who doesn’t understand seasons
I am not vegan, but I have vegan friends.
Veganism is respectable. It is good. But primates are opportunistic eaters, and humans are no different.
Not everyone is in a position to choose to remove meat from their diet. And some folks, like me, support vegans without feeling we need to eliminate all animal and insect products from our diets.
When we talk openly, we learn from each other and develop understanding. Who knows, maybe I will be vegan one day? I’ve cooked many vegan meals for groups of people.
Calling me names will push me away.
Okay, let’s talk. What makes you think you have the right to pay for an animal to be killed and turned into your meal? Intellectual superiority? Inability to control yourself? Genetic destiny? Might makes right?
You’ll have a greater impact on me if you approach me with curiosity, rather than aggression.
For example, all I’ve told you so far is that I’m not vegan.
You don’t know if, for example, I eat eggs harvested from my own happy chickens or harvest surplus honey from my own beehive. You don’t know whether I buy farmed meat from a store, or whether I only eat animals that lack any sort of brain
I’ve already expressed that veganism is good. That gives you inroads for engaging with me, learning more about what I consume that isn’t vegan, and offering the options that I might not think of.
Are you angry about people eating meat and harming animals? Good. You should be. I know I am. But I also temper my anger, especially when I’m trying to communicate better ways of doing things with people.
This is why talking to carnists respectfully is useless. I engaged you with questions instead of insults, and you dodged those questions and insulted me anyway. There’s no amount of respect I can give you that you’ll return in the slightest. After all, why would I expect you to respect me when you won’t even respect animals? Thank you for proving my point. I’ll stick to the direct approach, because while questions can be dodged, statements can’t.
I hope that one day you can replace the extreme anger with more directed indignation.
In the meanwhile, I wish you the best, and a lifetime of delicious vegan meals. We agree about more than you think.
As a self-identified eco-fascist, I find this comparison offensive!
Was wondering if lemmy had started getting circlejerk subs when I read this. Nope. Just an actual vegan living the stereotype.
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Amen to all that.
If a herd of cows is well cared for and leads a happy life? And if they’re one day killed painlessly, and then feed hundreds of people?
I’m not qualified to make blanket statements of ethics. Especially when some people live in parts of the world with little arable land, but many grasses that ruminants can eat and digest.
I used to eat a lot of meat. I used to not give much thought to where the meat came from. Both those things have changed as I’ve learned more.
I can’t change the thousands of years of cattle being bred for meat and dairy. But I can choose to avoid factory dairies that treat cows inhumanely.
Should fewer cows exist in the world? Should humans create fewer cows? Yes.
But they do exist. We can’t instantly change that. And some will be used for meat, we also can’t change that. So we start by trying to make more intelligent decisions, reducing society’s exploitation of meat animals, and helping people understand why this is good.
Obviously this has to do with more than cows, that’s just one example.
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Predators killing prey is part of the natural order
Appeal to nature fallacy.
If you can’t transcend your worst instincts and display free will, then you don’t deserve to live any better than the animals you eat. You belong in a cage, being fed slop, until all animals are freed. They are not guilty of choosing to be beasts. You are.
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But we have the right to kill and eat them if any predatory animal has that right too
Animals have sex with each other, too. Do you have that right? Or do you admit that knowledge comes with responsibilities? One or the other, can’t deny them both. And for the record, I do think animal agriculture requires rape, so this ad absurdum isn’t coming out of left field.
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You’re complaining about thinking humans have rights over nature, while defending acting as though humans have rights over nature. Humanity is the only species to raise animals in captivity for slaughter. The only species to forcibly impregnate livestock. The only species to operate slaughterhouses. The only species to trade corpses for currency. These are crimes against nature no other animal engages in. No animal should engage in them. It’s uniquely evil.
The life of a human has no greater value than a chicken. There are 34.4 billion chickens in the world. If I could snap my fingers to kill all humans and set all chickens free, even knowing there would be mass starvation, I would still do it, because the math still favours letting the chickens live. They would not continue to be bred and slaughtered in such numbers for your McDonald’s nuggets.
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