Concealed carriers commit violent crimes at 1/10th the rate of the general public. If you want to stop gun crimes, you would be more successful by prohibiting everyone except concealed carriers.
Concealed carriers have a lower rate of criminality because of how selective the process is to get that license. As that becomes easier to get we will see less ideal candidates getting that license and thus spiking that number.
As that becomes easier to get we will see less ideal candidates
Where are you getting the idea that Oregon’s concealed carry laws are loosening to allow “less ideal” candidates?
Oregon went to a minimally-restrictive “Shall Issue” licensing model back in 1989. “Shall Issue” means that the state imposes no discretionary limits; anyone who has not been explicitly prohibited from owning a gun will receive a license upon request.
And yet, licensed concealed carriers still have a lower rate of criminality than the general population.
The reason, of course, is because of the background check: The “general population” includes convicted felons, whose predilection for violent crime is so high it skews the statistics for the general public. Licensed concealed carriers exclude this group of perpetrators, so their “normal” numbers seem extraordinarily low.
Oregon specifically? I don’t have any bit nationally it will absolutely without question get worse. Right now concealed carry is neigh impossible for anyone in NYC or NJ. If you aren’t LEO you will not have one right now, but the expectation is that will change and as we get more untrained and less ideal people carrying we should see an increase in crimes committed by people with cc permits.
My warning is more about how I wouldn’t rely on old data anymore because the pool of people who can carry concealed has massively increased.
LEO total crime rate is only half that of general public, and five times that of concealed carriers. For certain acts (domestic violence) they are twice as likely to commit violent crime as the general public.
Opening up NYCs and NJs concealed carry from “LEO-Only” to “Shall Issue” (Meaning: “Background checked members of the general public”) would improve the rates among concealed carriers in general.
No, it wouldn’t because aside from the police it’s pretty much the governor and some mayors. You will be seeing a bunch of people getting guns who previously would have been denied them. I promise you the cc permit carrier rate of crime will substantially increase as more carry concealed.
42 states have Shall Issue licensing. Only 8 states have “May Issue” laws, where the state exercises arbitrary discretion in licensing.
In each and every one of those states, the violent crime rate of licensed carriers is substantially lower than that of the general public. In each and every one of those states, cops have a higher crime rate than carriers.
So no, it’s not just “the governor and some mayors”. It’s the entire country.
For your point to be rational, non-felon laypersons in New York and New Jersey would have to be substantially more criminal than carriers in 42 states.
Your “promises” have no logical basis. Guns simply do not cause crime.
I’m saying that if we are going to try to increase safety by banning people from public buildings and parks on the basis of whether they are carrying a gun, it would be statistically safer to ban non-carriers than carriers.
I’m not suggesting that we actually do this, of course.
I wonder what the concern is now though? Has there been a problem I’m not aware of?
Yeah. Guns killing people.
Concealed carriers commit violent crimes at 1/10th the rate of the general public. If you want to stop gun crimes, you would be more successful by prohibiting everyone except concealed carriers.
Concealed carriers have a lower rate of criminality because of how selective the process is to get that license. As that becomes easier to get we will see less ideal candidates getting that license and thus spiking that number.
Where are you getting the idea that Oregon’s concealed carry laws are loosening to allow “less ideal” candidates?
Oregon went to a minimally-restrictive “Shall Issue” licensing model back in 1989. “Shall Issue” means that the state imposes no discretionary limits; anyone who has not been explicitly prohibited from owning a gun will receive a license upon request.
And yet, licensed concealed carriers still have a lower rate of criminality than the general population.
The reason, of course, is because of the background check: The “general population” includes convicted felons, whose predilection for violent crime is so high it skews the statistics for the general public. Licensed concealed carriers exclude this group of perpetrators, so their “normal” numbers seem extraordinarily low.
Oregon specifically? I don’t have any bit nationally it will absolutely without question get worse. Right now concealed carry is neigh impossible for anyone in NYC or NJ. If you aren’t LEO you will not have one right now, but the expectation is that will change and as we get more untrained and less ideal people carrying we should see an increase in crimes committed by people with cc permits.
My warning is more about how I wouldn’t rely on old data anymore because the pool of people who can carry concealed has massively increased.
LEO total crime rate is only half that of general public, and five times that of concealed carriers. For certain acts (domestic violence) they are twice as likely to commit violent crime as the general public.
Opening up NYCs and NJs concealed carry from “LEO-Only” to “Shall Issue” (Meaning: “Background checked members of the general public”) would improve the rates among concealed carriers in general.
No, it wouldn’t because aside from the police it’s pretty much the governor and some mayors. You will be seeing a bunch of people getting guns who previously would have been denied them. I promise you the cc permit carrier rate of crime will substantially increase as more carry concealed.
42 states have Shall Issue licensing. Only 8 states have “May Issue” laws, where the state exercises arbitrary discretion in licensing.
In each and every one of those states, the violent crime rate of licensed carriers is substantially lower than that of the general public. In each and every one of those states, cops have a higher crime rate than carriers.
So no, it’s not just “the governor and some mayors”. It’s the entire country.
For your point to be rational, non-felon laypersons in New York and New Jersey would have to be substantially more criminal than carriers in 42 states.
Your “promises” have no logical basis. Guns simply do not cause crime.
Isn’t that the default state? Prohibited concealed carriers except those permitted?
I’m saying that if we are going to try to increase safety by banning people from public buildings and parks on the basis of whether they are carrying a gun, it would be statistically safer to ban non-carriers than carriers.
I’m not suggesting that we actually do this, of course.
Agreed.
The people who apply for permits are the ones who’ll obey the law.
I guess that means that permits are not an effective deterrent and that we should just ban guns altogether.