idk man I just need to vent i guess
my employer “provides” health insurance in exchange for my time and labor, and for that great privilege they take $600 out of my paycheck every month (covers me, my wife, and our 1yo son)
that’s half our monthly mortgage payment; it’s 2/3 our monthly grocery bill
why?
Mine is about the same for family coverage, and the shocking thing is that it’s pretty good relative to the market – my previous employer was about ~100/mo cheaper for an equivalent HDHP plan, but I’ve seen much, much worse.
Honestly, though, even more than the cost (having run the numbers, the tax I’d pay in a European country to cover similar services is about the same, all things considered) is the sheer level of friction that insurers inject into the healthcare system. You have to get a referral to a specialist even if you know you need to see one. You have to get insurance authorization for specialty treatments. You have to think about deductibles and out-of-pocket-maximums, and Lord help you if you start having complex medical problems around the end of the year and the maximums reset in the middle of your treatment!
We pay out of pocket for a direct primary care pediatrician for our kid (on top of his insurance, to cover any meds or emergencies) and the fact that there’s no insurance to deal with means that it’s vastly easier to get a hold of her to get a medical opinion whenever there’s a bad bump or a strange rash that needs a professional opinion. It’s shocking to see how things could be if insurance companies and PBMs and for-profit hospital networks hadn’t inserted themselves in between patients and doctors, with a sole eye towards making sure they pay out at little as humanly possible while maybe keeping patients alive in the process.
America is a corrupt capitalist hellscape. It’s why I don’t have kids, only go to the doctor when shit happens and never pay the bill.
“You should be grateful, peasant. That’s a good looking kid you got there. It would be a shame if she got sick. What were you saying, again, I just got a notice about a stock price increase.”
As an employer I would LOVE to be shed of this system. I have no reason to be involved in the health care of my employees, and given the state of health care in America there is literally no upside for my business. It’s all bad.
Unfortunately our system requires it, though. If I didn’t offer health care and instead just increased the base salary I wouldn’t be competitive. People would think I was trying to pull a fast-one on them, and few people in America know how to get health care on their own. It’s a mess.
Our “lords” have already told us why things are the way they are if you look at the “reasoning” behind why the Senate let the child tax credits expire.
“People wouldn’t have an incentive to work.”
They literally use healthcare to chain you to a job. I have 3 coworkers that I know of off hand that have all said they literally are only working here for the health insurance…
This system can go to hell.
“People wouldn’t have an incentive to work.”
That is just their attempt at rationalization. The real reason is much simplier: money, money, money. Lobbyists, Super PACs and the donor class own our politicians. The rich pay for their political campaigns and bribe our politicians in some interesting and creative ways. For example, giving a politician a million directly is illegal, but if he writes a book and then you have the SuperPAC buy a million copies of the politicians book that is somehow legal.
Well the problem is that you are viewing it from a “normal person” vantage… you need to think of your employees as indentured servants, basically slaves you don’t get to actually whip.
Once you get the proper Capitalist vantage point, you realize you can use this “benefit” to squeeze the life out of your employees, specially any of them with Chronic conditions or just a family, as they are hostages to the Health Care you provide!
My options at my last 3 jobs have all been more than 1400/month.
Insurance is extra expensive when you have a family in the US. I’m single and my monthly cost is less than $100 a month. Having a family is more expensive for everything.
But WHy dON’t YoUNg poPLE wANT tO sTarT a FaMILy?!?!
i get the feeling that society really doesnt want to spend the money to give people healthcare.
Well, at least here in the USA, we already are spending the money. Getting worse results than the rest of the world and spending more money on it. Because private health insurance is a joke and we’re all the punchline.
Most Americans want universal healthcare. The problem is that we have a broken and corrupt system where our politicians are bought and owned by the donor class and lobbyists
I “want” universal healthcare… but I know the government will screw it up. There is just no winning.
It’s 2 fold, one party doesn’t want to takeaway private insurance because of the donor money. The other doesn’t want “inferior” people to get health care.
A double edge sword unfortunately.
I would opt out of your employer health insurance, and go fully private with a policy in your own name. There’s no way in hell that that premium is real.
You are getting down voted because you said the dirty private word, but you are entirely right.
Id say the bigger problem might be your employer Heath insurance company can tell you no to opting out.
If you make less than $103,000 / year (family of 3) and pay more than 9.5% of your household gross income on healthcare premiums, you will likely save thousands by using your state’s healthcare marketplace. You are likely eligible because they fixed the family glitch, now the 9.5% applies to the cost for family rather than individual coverage as before.
Although the subsidies will likely end after 2025 if dems don’t retain a majority in house/senate.
It could easily save you thousands of dollars a year… Like I’m 100% of it… Ask me how I know, lol. Please look into it. I think you have to wait til open enrollment in December? or when your healthcare renews annually. You might be able to do it immediately due to “hardship”. I don’t know the specifics of your situation but I’m pretty sure you and a lot of other people here would save a lot of money. I would talk with a healthcare_gov or your state agency agent, they get paid by the gov’t to help you through it at no cost to you. You can also get a low HDHP and get your own HSA to essentially pay no taxes for medical expenditures. I hear fidelity is good, due to no fees.
Speaking of which, is there an active financial advice community on Lemmy (like that old site that should not be named) like /c/financialplanning or something like that?
I realize I’m in /c/antiwork so it goes without saying it’d be nice if we have universal healthcare without all this baloney money being siphoned to these criminal insurance companies. Just trying to help anyone out in a similar situation. ;)
Incredibly helpful information. You don’t need to preface for a shitty situation you did not create or have the power to control. You’ve your part by providing care and empathy in the form of advice that might help some of us.
We got to use what we got for now. Can’t survive on wishes and wants.
Your employer is likely paying another $600/mo for you as well, and singles/couples working for the company are actually subsiding your threesome.
The insurer-first system a stupid scheme that shouldn’t exist in the first place.
This is correct.
The private insurance industry is going to price themselves out of existence eventually. People are going to realize they can save an enormous amount of money by having the government act as payer for their healthcare instead of corporations trying to turn a profit. Healthcare already does not lend itself to distribution via capitalism, you don’t show up to the ED and wave money around to bid on your bed. It should be based on need.
As long as people are allowed to go into debt, this industry and others like it will exist forever
Still waiting for that. Been my hope since I went on this $250-500 a month health insurance journey during my first job in 2005.
Until you realize that in your praised Europe with the universal healthcare this is presicely how it works.
If you want cash instead of benefits go become a contractor.
I can’t possibly see where on an antiwork sub I could even begin to explain why employment laws and health insurances exist instead of everyone just getting plain cash for their labor. If you don’t know that, you’re not qualified to be antiwork.
Is this a swing at Europe? Because universal healthcare takes €50-60 per month in taxes, around €15-25 per month that you must pay to your personal healthcare and there’s a €10 per month “hospitalia” that pays for hospital services like rooms. If you get into an operation which would cost $50 000 in the US, in Europe that would cost €2500 here plus €500 for a room, you get around €2000 back from your personal healthcare that’s subsidized by the universal healthcare, and you get €400+ back for the room.
I really don’t get your take, I’m antiwork when it’s abouts profits but I love paying these taxes.
I’m from a place in Europe. Had complicated surgery recently. I technically made money from it. And once the scar and minor disability is calculated, I’ll probably make even more. To put things in perspective, I mean.
Disability and “long term health care” often have their own type of government spending. It might look like you’re making money but it’s the same as getting unemployment benefits. Although in this case they are justified by your health instead. These costs are considered to be paid by past and future taxes.
If it’s anything else you’re pretty lucky, but it can quickly turn into minor fraud. If you are working and are getting a lot of money, be sure that they know you are getting this money.
It’s not a lot of money and certainly not worth it. I’m just making a point that I financially go positive rather than negative. The money comes from a private insurer that makes money every year. I’m pretty sure they are on top of things. This is not some advanced insurance scam; it’s the realisation that an accident is something to be compensated for and not punished for. No-one wants to be in an accident (edge cases blah blah).
I see. I wasn’t claiming it was a scam or anything.
Damn it’s really that cheap?
It’s decent and affordable but not cheap. The US is just extremely expensive. I read that hospitals in the US even bill pills that are given to you, separately, at 50 times the actual price or something.
I really wish healthcare would be affordable and possible for everybody because not only does it improve lives medically, but also psychologically as you know they are there to help you.
They pay $600 a month for insurance and STILL pays doctor bills. I also pay 600 a month and my yearly max out of pocket is $2500 per family member. In the EU the pay nothing other than taxes(maybe some small fees but not much at all) And from searching a few websites the max you will pay in Germany is 7.3 percent of your income capped at €62100 for a max monthly insurance cost of €377.77($420.70 USD)
When I do my annual determination of the best plan, I always look at my total cost if I maxed out copays and deductible. Even as an old fart, HSA looks incredibly cheap because the premiums are so low. How ever, in many circumstances I don’t reach my out of pocket limits.
Why don’t you try? I’m sure you’d do a bang-up job explaining.
In the US during WW2 employers couldn’t keep employees because of wage competition. This made war production extremely inefficient and slow. The War Labor Board instituted wage ceilings for critical jobs. But, they allowed employers to compete with health benefits. Employment and healthcare became intertwined.
After WW2 the War Labor Board was dissolved and wage ceilings removed. FDR, who’d proposed and implemented The New Deal and led us through WW2, proposed the Second Bill of Rights aka the Economic Bill of Rights:
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Employment
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An adequate income for food, shelter, and recreation
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Farmers’ rights to a fair income
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Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
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Decent housing
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Adequate medical care
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Social security
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Education
This would’ve disaccociated employment and medical care. However, FDR was labeled a socialist and authoritarian, demonized. We the People bought into the propaganda.
That’s how it’s been for eighty years: The leftists propose the same platform FDR did. And, they’re told to shut up for disturbing the idiots running in fear of one bad choice or another. All that’s changed is the efficiency and effectiveness of the hegemony’s propaganda.
big government guy proposed big government solution to unintended consequence of bad decisions by big government, is confused when people don’t want more big government meddling.
the real problem here is that people forgot about what the issue was and how it happened, and years later are clamoring for government to “do something”. and extra unfortunately, at this point it may be too late for any solution other than letting government just take control of all of it; i can’t see any other way to get all the shitty government decisions and interventions rolled back.
The US incarnation of capitalism has obviously failed. I’m all for revolution. But, I’ve no doubt that the vast majority of society would willingly give up their freedom, once again. Humans have been doing the same thing for millennia.
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It’s likely 1/3rd to 1/2 of what the insurance actually costs.
Insurance numbers in the US are all made up bullshit numbers designed to funnell money from the working class to the rich.
This is madness. Where I’m from, we have a nationalised healthcare system and yet my employer offers private healthcare coverage for no additional cost to myself (free)!
yeah that sounds like an employer actually providing a benefit in exchange for you working for them
You’re dumb as a rock. And so is the yurobro.
In those European countries the employee often costs 20-30% more than their stated salary.
There’s absolutely no such thing as “my employer gives me extra insurance free of charge”. It’s not free. They’re paying for it.
As I worked for a small startup I know all the numbers. I received X gross on paper, the company had expenses of 1.2X, and I got 0.6X on my bank account. Oh boy, gotta love those “free” health insurances, unemployment benefits, paid sick days etc.
That’s wonderful. Where is this, if it’s not too personal, if it is, no worries.
The United Kingdom (and hilariously, it’s an American company that employs me and gives me private healthcare).
Private health care is very different in the UK. If you’re ever in serious ill health, or need anything remotely risky private healthcare will tell you to go to the NHS. It’s mostly GPs with nicer offices and NHS consultants moonlighting.
😂. I’m happy for you. Eat. Them.
