I would say that this kind of protest just makes people mad at you and your cause. If I was stuck in traffic for X hours I would probably be mad at the protestors and not sympathize with their cause.
Firstly, getting food is different than literally being imprisoned in your car. Secondly, they could go to a different place and these people are actively attacking them not being victims of their protest.
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice
If your devotion is to order, where your allegiance is to the polite convenience you’ve come to accept and expect as a first world consumer, you are no ally of justice.
I dont know what you are trying to get at. I think you should realize that getting on freeway and making everyone mad = bad protest; doing a sit-in and getting the harm visable = good protest.
Its that you make this comment without any comprehension of history.
In 1958, you would have been writing this exact same comment about a sit-in protest being “bad protest”. Your worldview just rewrites you into being on the right side of history on things, when now, when you have the opportunity to be on the right side of history while its happening, you aren’t.
Dude, I literally havent take a side, I am just telling you what I think works and what doesnt. If you think getting people fighting mad on a freeway is a way to win people over, I would have to disagree.
Again with another poorly thought out opinion that does not logically connect your message with any real measure of virtue. Here you’re excusing the conduct of people who would block traffic by chalking it all up to countering the white moderate preferring an absence of tension, which is not a logical conclusion whatsoever as it could be similarly used to argue for hanging racists in the street. It’s ignoring the severity of the impact of the protest to break it down into a binary of support/nonsupport. “Either you’re with us or you’re against us.” is the mantra of forced conformity of thought. Seriously, do better.
No, it wasn’t…because he was talking about people who didn’t want to see black folks rise up at all if it meant disruption. I would be thrilled to see Gazans gain equality, their own state and be just fine with protestors disrupting the people who could actually affect those changes. Protesting by blocking regular folk from getting anywhere is rock bottom stupid because they don’t have any power to make the change…it’s taking their frustration out at the situation out on innocent people. Instead of speaking truth to power, it’s inflicting their will on the powerless. If you can’t tell right from wrong, that’s a you problem.
If you think MLK would have been all for trapping regular civilians on the US freeways for a war in another continent though, you’re a complete and utter moron.
“severity of impact” – a few hundred people made slightly late to things vs. tens of thousands of civilian deaths. How do you type this without pausing to consider how absolutely monstrous you’re being?
How do you type this without pausing to consider how absurdly hyperbolic you’re being? I don’t support Israel in its war against Gaza whatsoever, I was thrilled to see the war crimes charges against Netanyahu and public sentiment turning against the conditions there but if I don’t support freeway blocking protests in another continent that don’t even attempt to separate out those that support the war, I’m being “absolutely monstrous?” How could anyone be expected to take you seriously here when you exaggerate THAT badly?
Edit: Oh, and “Few hundred people made slightly late”
Gonna stop you right there. You have no idea how many cars get backed up for how long, who has drinking water, working Air Conditioning, emergencies to get to, whether or not someone died in an ambulance stuck in traffic. You’re making up the rosiest scenario, pretending this isn’t dangerous and life threatening, and then pretending that’s the reality as if you could know. It’s wildly dishonest.
You write dumb shit like you’re trying to hit a word count.
“excusing the conduct of people who would” literally delete this entire cringe flourish and you lose zero meaning. In fact you lose redundancy wHerEiN you first refer to what they’re doing and then just say what they’re doing in the same sentence. Sophomoric.
It’s ignoring the severity of the impact of the protest to break it down into a binary of support/nonsupport.
So high off your 8th grade writing level that you don’t even bother building your sentences around coherent thoughts.
You write dumb shit like you’re trying to hit a word count.
I’ve read what you wrote and am firmly in the position of looking down on you due to your poorly thought out and immature views. No amount of writing skill is going to cover up your overall lack of intelligence, and you haven’t demonstrated any writing skill either. You can convince yourself I’m writing dumb shit just because you disagree with it. I don’t care…I just know better.
Illogical take and a false equivalence. These people could just go somewhere else and obviously do not support the rights of the protesters. In the freeway blocking situation, you’d be stopping the people who support Gaza from getting home to their kids the same as everyone else and they are literally trapped on the freeway vs. choosing to be in this pictured restaurant. You’d be trapping people who might not have water in the car, might not have A/C, might not have the gas to idle and wait, might be rushing to the hospital to meet the ambulance with their wife/child in it.
Your take is morally wrong in a demonstrable way and I hope you can learn to recognize that.
“And what is it America has failed to hear?…It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.”
I mean, you’re right about the people directly impacted, but if you’re on the 405, this shit happens all the time. I was stuck for a few hours cause of a jumper. It’s annoying, and it’s hot outside, and in the moment I would certainly be anti-protester if not anti-everything. But that’s just people there at the time inconvenienced.
So, it’s probably a net good for their cause since more people aren’t in traffic than are, although at this point I feel like everyone has made up their mind on Gaza (and honestly, images and recounts from people on the ground there are a thousand times more persuasive than whatever this is)
That makes sense, I would just be mad at them if I was on the freeway. I am personally not very positive on them because they do things that seem pretty shitty on a regular basis.
I can see it would be good if it were done on a smaller road that is visable, but fuck keeping people stuck in their car when they dont have any way around it.
I am just saying what would be effective and what would make people hostile to their cause. If they set up a line of people in front of one of the weapons manufacturing locations, I think that would be an example of an effective protest.
Somehow, the “effective” protests you recommend don’t seem to be doing anything. Do you have any other bright ideas? Maybe something that the average person will actually learn about?
Is getting a news story all that matters for an “effective” protest? If so, you must think blocking traffic is an incredibly effective protest strategy.
I think news stories or any media is one of the most effective things, but it has to be a sympathetic news story. Holding up business of Ratheon - good news story; holding people in their cars on the freeway - bad news story.
Yep, I think what people aren’t getting is that if any protest group undemocratically gives itself the right to block freeways, then any protest group could claim the same rights. What if pro-life people start blocking freeways next, then pro-Israel protestors next. The level of passion about the topic does not grant automatic acceptance of the method.
I agree and would also say that society demanding harsher punishments for this kind of protesting is a pretty dang good indicator that it’s morally wrong.
No, nor pro choice people and that’s exactly my point. The acceptability of the form of protest can’t be related to how passionate the people are about their cause, or every passionate social justice group could justify this. That’s clearly a result society can’t take and leads to the few saying to the many: “my favorite cause is more important than…well, whatever you have going on today.” What makes it wrong is targeting random people with no attempt at majority support, an indifference to the risks, and trapping people in the protest. It would be wrong no matter the cause.
I would say that this kind of protest just makes people mad at you and your cause. If I was stuck in traffic for X hours I would probably be mad at the protestors and not sympathize with their cause.
See, in this image, you would be the one standing in the back pissed off they can’t just get their lunch and would be mad at the protestors.
History happens every day. You need to not be mistaken where you stand in it.
These people are directly involved. The people on the highway have no control over anything in Gaza and it has nothing to do with their daily lives.
Firstly, getting food is different than literally being imprisoned in your car. Secondly, they could go to a different place and these people are actively attacking them not being victims of their protest.
If your devotion is to order, where your allegiance is to the polite convenience you’ve come to accept and expect as a first world consumer, you are no ally of justice.
For those that don’t know and because TropicalDingdong was a ding-dong and didn’t cite their quote, this is a quote from a letter written by Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Jr during his time in jail after a protest.
Edit: He was a Reverend and a doctor, so I got mixed up getting his titles right.
I dont know what you are trying to get at. I think you should realize that getting on freeway and making everyone mad = bad protest; doing a sit-in and getting the harm visable = good protest.
Its that you make this comment without any comprehension of history.
In 1958, you would have been writing this exact same comment about a sit-in protest being “bad protest”. Your worldview just rewrites you into being on the right side of history on things, when now, when you have the opportunity to be on the right side of history while its happening, you aren’t.
Dude, I literally havent take a side, I am just telling you what I think works and what doesnt. If you think getting people fighting mad on a freeway is a way to win people over, I would have to disagree.
Like, I don’t know how else to explain this to you, but that is quite literally a “side”, both now and historically, in this discussion.
Read or learn literally anything about the history of protestation.
I assure you, you are already on a side, even if you dont know you are.
Again, no I am not taking a side, I am informing on what type of protest would be effective in my opinion.
Again with another poorly thought out opinion that does not logically connect your message with any real measure of virtue. Here you’re excusing the conduct of people who would block traffic by chalking it all up to countering the white moderate preferring an absence of tension, which is not a logical conclusion whatsoever as it could be similarly used to argue for hanging racists in the street. It’s ignoring the severity of the impact of the protest to break it down into a binary of support/nonsupport. “Either you’re with us or you’re against us.” is the mantra of forced conformity of thought. Seriously, do better.
Nah. Its you that needs to do better. No protest needs to apologize for inconveniencing you.
Your hand wringing is precisely what MLK was talking about.
No, it wasn’t…because he was talking about people who didn’t want to see black folks rise up at all if it meant disruption. I would be thrilled to see Gazans gain equality, their own state and be just fine with protestors disrupting the people who could actually affect those changes. Protesting by blocking regular folk from getting anywhere is rock bottom stupid because they don’t have any power to make the change…it’s taking their frustration out at the situation out on innocent people. Instead of speaking truth to power, it’s inflicting their will on the powerless. If you can’t tell right from wrong, that’s a you problem.
If you think MLK would have been all for trapping regular civilians on the US freeways for a war in another continent though, you’re a complete and utter moron.
“severity of impact” – a few hundred people made slightly late to things vs. tens of thousands of civilian deaths. How do you type this without pausing to consider how absolutely monstrous you’re being?
How do you type this without pausing to consider how absurdly hyperbolic you’re being? I don’t support Israel in its war against Gaza whatsoever, I was thrilled to see the war crimes charges against Netanyahu and public sentiment turning against the conditions there but if I don’t support freeway blocking protests in another continent that don’t even attempt to separate out those that support the war, I’m being “absolutely monstrous?” How could anyone be expected to take you seriously here when you exaggerate THAT badly?
Edit: Oh, and “Few hundred people made slightly late”
Gonna stop you right there. You have no idea how many cars get backed up for how long, who has drinking water, working Air Conditioning, emergencies to get to, whether or not someone died in an ambulance stuck in traffic. You’re making up the rosiest scenario, pretending this isn’t dangerous and life threatening, and then pretending that’s the reality as if you could know. It’s wildly dishonest.
You write dumb shit like you’re trying to hit a word count.
“excusing the conduct of people who would” literally delete this entire cringe flourish and you lose zero meaning. In fact you lose redundancy wHerEiN you first refer to what they’re doing and then just say what they’re doing in the same sentence. Sophomoric.
So high off your 8th grade writing level that you don’t even bother building your sentences around coherent thoughts.
I’ve read what you wrote and am firmly in the position of looking down on you due to your poorly thought out and immature views. No amount of writing skill is going to cover up your overall lack of intelligence, and you haven’t demonstrated any writing skill either. You can convince yourself I’m writing dumb shit just because you disagree with it. I don’t care…I just know better.
With true fidelity to my criticism you bore everyone with excessively verbose drivel that contributed nothing
oh noooo, they were stuck in car prison for 20 minutes, with the A/C on and their favorite music playing! the horror 😱😱
Illogical take and a false equivalence. These people could just go somewhere else and obviously do not support the rights of the protesters. In the freeway blocking situation, you’d be stopping the people who support Gaza from getting home to their kids the same as everyone else and they are literally trapped on the freeway vs. choosing to be in this pictured restaurant. You’d be trapping people who might not have water in the car, might not have A/C, might not have the gas to idle and wait, might be rushing to the hospital to meet the ambulance with their wife/child in it.
Your take is morally wrong in a demonstrable way and I hope you can learn to recognize that.
Nah.
Take a shower
Lmao
“And what is it America has failed to hear?…It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.”
well i was going to condemn genocide but then some people who want the killing to stop blockid traffic so now i think its ok to kill people.
sure have fun being mad at the protestors
I mean, you’re right about the people directly impacted, but if you’re on the 405, this shit happens all the time. I was stuck for a few hours cause of a jumper. It’s annoying, and it’s hot outside, and in the moment I would certainly be anti-protester if not anti-everything. But that’s just people there at the time inconvenienced.
So, it’s probably a net good for their cause since more people aren’t in traffic than are, although at this point I feel like everyone has made up their mind on Gaza (and honestly, images and recounts from people on the ground there are a thousand times more persuasive than whatever this is)
That makes sense, I would just be mad at them if I was on the freeway. I am personally not very positive on them because they do things that seem pretty shitty on a regular basis.
Exactly, the worthy message is completely lost in the immoral delivery.
I can see it would be good if it were done on a smaller road that is visable, but fuck keeping people stuck in their car when they dont have any way around it.
Inconveniencing people, and more specifically disrupting industry, is the only way that protests actually do anything.
I am just saying what would be effective and what would make people hostile to their cause. If they set up a line of people in front of one of the weapons manufacturing locations, I think that would be an example of an effective protest.
Protesters accuse Raytheon of abuses, block plant entrances
It’s amazing how protesters already tried that and nothing happened.
18 people facing charges for allegedly defacing Raytheon sign during protest in Tewksbury
Somehow, the “effective” protests you recommend don’t seem to be doing anything. Do you have any other bright ideas? Maybe something that the average person will actually learn about?
How was that not effective, they got a news story and more news stories when it comes to their court trials?
Is getting a news story all that matters for an “effective” protest? If so, you must think blocking traffic is an incredibly effective protest strategy.
I think news stories or any media is one of the most effective things, but it has to be a sympathetic news story. Holding up business of Ratheon - good news story; holding people in their cars on the freeway - bad news story.
What do you think is an effective protest?
Yep, I think what people aren’t getting is that if any protest group undemocratically gives itself the right to block freeways, then any protest group could claim the same rights. What if pro-life people start blocking freeways next, then pro-Israel protestors next. The level of passion about the topic does not grant automatic acceptance of the method.
I think it would just turn harsher punishments for protesting.
I agree and would also say that society demanding harsher punishments for this kind of protesting is a pretty dang good indicator that it’s morally wrong.
Would you think its okay for pro life people to do this on the freeway?
No, nor pro choice people and that’s exactly my point. The acceptability of the form of protest can’t be related to how passionate the people are about their cause, or every passionate social justice group could justify this. That’s clearly a result society can’t take and leads to the few saying to the many: “my favorite cause is more important than…well, whatever you have going on today.” What makes it wrong is targeting random people with no attempt at majority support, an indifference to the risks, and trapping people in the protest. It would be wrong no matter the cause.