Seeing the discussion about this get censored heavily was enlightening. The modlog had some of the best comments.
Imane Khelif is an intersex man that has the advantage of male puberty because he has XY chromosomes. He, like many intersex men, was born with ambiguous genitalia that looked like a vulva (but almost certainly didn’t have an actual female reproductive system). He was AFAB in the correct sense of the term, but is relying on incorrect paperwork to compete in women’s boxing.
Lemmy should be horrified at a dude punching women, not providing a smokescreen by saying “But Russia!”. The IBA had the tests done by independent labs that confirmed he is male, possibly with a DSD. They’re corrupt, but not in any way that affects this. If Khelif wants to prove them wrong and ensure that nobody ever believes the IBA ever again, he can get a simple cheek swab and show the world.
Sex is not hard. XY is male, XX is female. If something goes wrong with that, then you’re intersex. Leave women’s sports to women (XX). Intersex people can compete in men’s sports. Anything else is going to push women out of sports completely, because they have a biological disadvantage against men. If the Olympics doesn’t re-institute sex testing, we’re going to end up with “Men’s” and “Men with DSD” divisions.
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I didn’t even spend this much time thinking about sex when I was fifteen.
Deflection doesn’t change that we all saw a man punching a woman and getting cheered for it
I can’t say what you saw, but I saw two female olympians fight.
What you saw, as independently verified by two different labs, is a man punching a woman.
I’ll believe the International Olympic Committee and its Paris Boxing Unit.
Then you’ll believe that it’s a DSD case? They had to correct a statement that they put out
They know he has a DSD and don’t care. You’ll also then believe that the entirety of their “checking” was “yup, his passport says female”?
I believe she is a female.
That’s fine. I’m atheist, and don’t subscribe to your religion, because I care about science.
Fuckin’ yikes, man. You really need to step away from the propaganda machines you’ve strapped yourself to and go out and touch some grass. You’re acting completely unhinged right now.
Can you point out the propaganda exactly? Just wishing things weren’t true doesn’t make it so
Well, I mean, first thing is that a women’s boxing event at the Olympics has you frothing at the mouth. Doubt that you’d have the same reaction if you didn’t tune into Fox News 24/7. I suppose it’s possible that you were a big fan of women’s amateur boxing before 2 weeks ago, but for some reason, I highly doubt that.
Secondly, the only evidence you have that Imane Khalif is intersex is from the IBA, an organization that refused to release any of the information about the tests they ran. Also, it’s an organization that is pretty god damned crooked, run by a Russian man, is based in Russia, and is sponsored exclusively by Gazprom, a Russian energy company. And the disqualification of Khalif came immediately following her beating Russian fighter Azalia Amineva. The same thing, of course, happened to Lin Yu-ting after she beat a Russian fighter as well.
So your entire thesis here is based on the word of an organization that the IOC has determined is crooked, and has permanently banned from the Olympics. Not only that, you’re giving them the benefit of the doubt despite them not releasing any specific information about the tests they allegedly ran, and despite them running those tests immediately following these two fighters beating undefeated Russian opponents.
Now, someone who wasn’t sucking down right-wing propaganda 24/7 would probably look at that and say: “Gee - it kind of sounds like that organization is probably not very trustworthy”, but you went whole hog and started ranting about how disappointed you were in the Lemmy community that they were cheering for a “man” beating up a woman.
You’re high on the propaganda juice, mate. You need to pull the hose out of your mouth, go outside, and re-think significant parts of your life.
The IOC themselves said that this wasn’t a DSD case, and then had to correct themselves. If Khelif doesn’t have DSD, why did they correct themselves?
As stated in the OP, it doesn’t matter if the IBA is crooked. It also doesn’t matter why they tested Khelif and Lin. It matters what the tests said. If they’re women, a simple cheek swab will prove it. Why don’t they do that and show the IBA to be lying liars?
Ok, but there is no evidence that they even ran the fucking tests, you dolt. They won’t release any info about them. The only evidence you have that they ran tests is that they said they ran tests. Given that they’re unreliable, why in the name of fuck would you trust them?
As for your tweet? Who gives a shit. You’re reading meaning into it that isn’t there. You could easily point to the part that says: “This is about a woman taking part in a women’s competition” to get the IOC’s take on the matter.
Do you think the IOC didn’t test the athletes? Is it your contention that because of some wording in a tweet that you choose to find ambiguous that Imane Khalif is intersex despite no other valid supporting evidence? That’s pretty weak, dude. Seriously - you’re so high on propaganda that the fumes are leaking out your nose.
Edit: And if she is intersex (which, again, has zero evidence as of now), the Olympics obviously doesn’t feel that it’s a disqualifying condition for women’s competitions. So why the fuck are you bent out of shape about it? If an organization says that two competitors are fit to fight under their bylaws, who the fuck are you to challenge them?
Do you realize that the IOC’s “testing” consisted of “looking at their passports”? That’s literally it.
The IBA had independent labs do the testing, and a journalist claims to have seen the results in person: https://nitter.poast.org/alanabrahamson/status/1820036924452618281
But again, it doesn’t matter if the IBA is corrupt, we don’t have to believe them one bit. A cheek swab will settle this. Why don’t Khelif and Lin clap back at the haters and prove them all wrong? Otherwise the women they fought are rightfully outraged that they lost because men cheated.
I would very much like you to tell me, in detail, how Khelif and Lin cheated, when the IOC cleared them to fight. So, what, the IOC said that they’re ok to fight, but because you don’t think they’re qualified, they cheated?
The women they fought think they cheated by being men. The IOC should listen to the women boxers speaking out about this. Women in Olympic sports overwhelmingly want sex testing
yeah you feel so strongly about this that you had to create an alt account because you’re embarrassed to have it associated with you
Is there anything incorrect about what I said?
Why does it seem like everyone on your instance so… childish?
😂 yeah, I’m surrounded by weird religious children.
Owned. You should call them weird next.
Sex is not hard, to me, either:
Women who were born with a vagina and have never done anything to transition to male are women. Their chromosomes or testosterone levels may be too high to compete in combat sports due to it being an unfair advantage, but they are women.
As men with the same situation - born with a penis, never done anything to transition into women - they are men, still, even with an unfortunate disorder.
I think you should argue about why she has an unfair disadvantage because of ‘DSD’ (Development Sexual Disorder), but not talk about how she’s actually a man or anything.
Conservatives clapped & laughed when they went to a tribe in Africa and asked “Can a man have a vagina? Can a woman have a penis?” and the natives laughed at the very idea of it… But we are actually now saying “A woman with a vagina IS A MAN…!” Which is wild to me.
Khelif most likely wasn’t born with a vagina, just ambiguous genitalia that looked like a vulva. He almost certainly has testicles like Caster Semenya that induced male puberty, and likewise has no female reproductive system.
I’ve been somewhat sloppy with terminology in this thread, using “man” as short for “man with a DSD”, which is better termed “intersex”. The important thing is that Khelif is intersex from the XY side, which gives him an unfair advantage against women in sports.
I think it’s important to not call Khelif a woman. It is unsafe for him to compete in women’s boxing, and it’s much easier for people to use bad faith arguments and spread misinformation by saying “She’s a woman competing against women, what’s the problem?” It clears things up to say “He’s an intersex person that went through male puberty competing against women”
Addendum, this is fucked up
This is clearly gaslighting. Liberals are fucking up hard here and will drive people away.
Dawkins’s a dick
I used to follow him on Facebook. I think Facebook will be a little better without him.
