In the last few years, seemingly every car company has begun investing heavily in electric vehicles. Ford said it would “lead America’s shift to EVs.” GM sai...
I think plug-in hybrids are probably the way, particularly outside the US where Tesla hasn’t made a bid for controlling the charging network by overinvesting in proprietary charging spots.
At that point it’s probably the price that is the issue, but otherwise that seems to be the proposal that people are most comfortable with. The scalability of “EVs as tech toys” upstart approach has always been a bit weird, and without that leading the way as much I don’t know that there are incentives to fully transition without an in-between step.
I think plug-in hybrids are probably the way, particularly outside the US where Tesla hasn’t made a bid for controlling the charging network by overinvesting in proprietary charging spots.
This is the very first time I’ve heard anyone spin the number and ubiquity of Tesla Supercharging network as a bad thing. The charging connector is no longer proprietary. Its an SAE approved charging connector just like SAE J1772 used in nearly all EVs, the SAE Tesla connector is J3400.
I didn’t say it’s a bad thing at all. I said there are territories where they didn’t do it, so the charging infrastructure hasn’t been built up by a private company effectively losing money in pursuit of cornering a specific market, start-up style. Even in the US the coverage is uneven, and outside the US it’s basically nonexistent, so the headstart Tesla created to solve that issue is not the norm.
But… yeah, no, they made a bid for controlling the charging network and standard by losing money on a charging network the market didn’t support yet so they could kickstart a segment they were trying to lead. I don’t think even Tesla people would deny that.
particularly outside the US where Tesla hasn’t made a bid for controlling the charging network by overinvesting in proprietary charging spots.
I’m having difficulty seeing your usage of “a bid for controlling the charging network” and “overinvesting in proprietary charging spots” as positive statements and only see negative connotations from your choice of words. Can you clarify how your statement is positive?
But… yeah, no, they made a bid for controlling the charging network and standard by losing money on a charging network the market didn’t support yet so they could kickstart a segment they were trying to lead. I don’t think even Tesla people would deny that.
Thats partially correct but you’ve got some revisionist history there. Tesla came out with NACS/J3400 charging connector because the alternative established industry standard was CHAdeMO. The better than CHAdeMO connector, CCS only came out on paper in 2012. This was after Tesla Model S had actual shipped cars on the road earlier that year.
The ‘make a bid to control the charging network’ is a bit strange. There was no one else building charging networks in 2012, when the first 6 superchargers were built in the USA). I’m pretty sure Tesla would have been delighted if someone else would have done the work to take care of charging, but no one else stepped up. Tesla needed a charging network to sell cars so they built it.
I didn’t say it was a good thing either. It’s just… a thing. That happened.
I get that people get super wrapped into morality on this issue and rooting for the things they “support” or whatever they view it as, but that’s genuinely not how I look at it or how I’m framing it.
EVs are EVs. They’re a consumer product and also a part of a larger process of overhauling our energy generation, infrastructure and consumption. I do not have a horse in that race, beyond the obvious large-scale global impact, and even there I’m a lot more broad and neutral than the average online commenter, from what I can tell.
So no, it’s not a good or a bad thing. A company made a very strong bet on electrifying vehicles, and as part of that bet they invested very heavily in a charger network, which was very costly but also placed them in a position to control key parts of the infrastructure. It was a bold move, and it worked, kinda. But even that big investment couldn’t possibly be global, so all I’m saying is charger coverage is very uneven and there are regions where plug-in hybrids make sense as a transitional option where the charger network is moving slower in the absence of Tesla investment.
You keep trying to make this into part of an ongoing argument you’re clearly having with someone else as part of some online side-taking. I’m not sure which side you’re on, or the other guys are on or what the dividng lines are supposed to be. As a casual observer with an interest only in the big picture ramifications, I legitimately could not are any less about that.
A company made a very strong bet on electrifying vehicles, and as part of that bet they invested very heavily in a charger network, which was very costly but also placed them in a position to control key parts of the infrastructure. It was a bold move, and it worked, kinda.
I think that’s a mischaracterization. I don’t believe Tesla set out to build the best charging network in the USA. It just ended up being that because of the ignorance and/or apathy of every other automaker and charging network provider.
You keep trying to make this into part of an ongoing argument you’re clearly having with someone else as part of some online side-taking.
Believe me, I’m not.
I’m not sure which side you’re on, or the other guys are on or what the dividng lines are supposed to be. As a casual observer with an interest only in the big picture ramifications, I legitimately could not are any less about that.
I was surprised at your usage of language which had a pretty clear negative connotation to my reading. I hadn’t seen that before from anyone and was interested in your view on it because it was unique.
I think plug-in hybrids are probably the way, particularly outside the US where Tesla hasn’t made a bid for controlling the charging network by overinvesting in proprietary charging spots.
At that point it’s probably the price that is the issue, but otherwise that seems to be the proposal that people are most comfortable with. The scalability of “EVs as tech toys” upstart approach has always been a bit weird, and without that leading the way as much I don’t know that there are incentives to fully transition without an in-between step.
This is the very first time I’ve heard anyone spin the number and ubiquity of Tesla Supercharging network as a bad thing. The charging connector is no longer proprietary. Its an SAE approved charging connector just like SAE J1772 used in nearly all EVs, the SAE Tesla connector is J3400.
I didn’t say it’s a bad thing at all. I said there are territories where they didn’t do it, so the charging infrastructure hasn’t been built up by a private company effectively losing money in pursuit of cornering a specific market, start-up style. Even in the US the coverage is uneven, and outside the US it’s basically nonexistent, so the headstart Tesla created to solve that issue is not the norm.
But… yeah, no, they made a bid for controlling the charging network and standard by losing money on a charging network the market didn’t support yet so they could kickstart a segment they were trying to lead. I don’t think even Tesla people would deny that.
You said:
I’m having difficulty seeing your usage of “a bid for controlling the charging network” and “overinvesting in proprietary charging spots” as positive statements and only see negative connotations from your choice of words. Can you clarify how your statement is positive?
Thats partially correct but you’ve got some revisionist history there. Tesla came out with NACS/J3400 charging connector because the alternative established industry standard was CHAdeMO. The better than CHAdeMO connector, CCS only came out on paper in 2012. This was after Tesla Model S had actual shipped cars on the road earlier that year.
The ‘make a bid to control the charging network’ is a bit strange. There was no one else building charging networks in 2012, when the first 6 superchargers were built in the USA). I’m pretty sure Tesla would have been delighted if someone else would have done the work to take care of charging, but no one else stepped up. Tesla needed a charging network to sell cars so they built it.
I didn’t say it was a good thing either. It’s just… a thing. That happened.
I get that people get super wrapped into morality on this issue and rooting for the things they “support” or whatever they view it as, but that’s genuinely not how I look at it or how I’m framing it.
EVs are EVs. They’re a consumer product and also a part of a larger process of overhauling our energy generation, infrastructure and consumption. I do not have a horse in that race, beyond the obvious large-scale global impact, and even there I’m a lot more broad and neutral than the average online commenter, from what I can tell.
So no, it’s not a good or a bad thing. A company made a very strong bet on electrifying vehicles, and as part of that bet they invested very heavily in a charger network, which was very costly but also placed them in a position to control key parts of the infrastructure. It was a bold move, and it worked, kinda. But even that big investment couldn’t possibly be global, so all I’m saying is charger coverage is very uneven and there are regions where plug-in hybrids make sense as a transitional option where the charger network is moving slower in the absence of Tesla investment.
You keep trying to make this into part of an ongoing argument you’re clearly having with someone else as part of some online side-taking. I’m not sure which side you’re on, or the other guys are on or what the dividng lines are supposed to be. As a casual observer with an interest only in the big picture ramifications, I legitimately could not are any less about that.
I think that’s a mischaracterization. I don’t believe Tesla set out to build the best charging network in the USA. It just ended up being that because of the ignorance and/or apathy of every other automaker and charging network provider.
Believe me, I’m not.
I was surprised at your usage of language which had a pretty clear negative connotation to my reading. I hadn’t seen that before from anyone and was interested in your view on it because it was unique.