The proposal, sent to Hamas through negotiators, would begin with a temporary six-week cease-fire that would pave the way for negotiations to eventually end the war and rebuild Gaza.
They’re being asked to release some, but not all hostages during the first phase. That leaves them with a bargaining chip until the Israeli army withdraws. Any sustainable peace is going to ultimately involve Hamas releasing all the hostages.
So there’s a lot of reason to believe that Phase II is never intended to resolve in a cease fire. Their demands in the negotiations are eliminating the group they’re negotiating with and then reestablishing the occupation of Gaza. That’s not really a negotiation.
LOL. “Bad people should be self-sacrificing for the good of others.” If we’re going to talk in such fantasies, Benjamin Netanyahu should go present himself to the people of Gaza and accept whatever judgement they believe is appropriate for his crimes against them.
Their own good too; they’ve got the capacity to have a decent life for themselves instead of living in a bunch of tunnels with occasional excursions to shoot at somebody.
Instead, Hamas is choosing to put the population of Gaza through a war.
That’s completely incorrect from the Palestinian POV. The Palestinians elected Fatah and Abbas, who had a policy of nonviolence and Israel continued to steal land and shoot Palestinians as a result. Palestinians went to the UN to complain and Israel blocked it and sanctioned Palestinians as a result. Palestinians copied Israel and elected a rightwing party Hamas, a party with a similar platform to fight back and squeeze the other side for concessions. Hamas proposed a ceasefire but Israel violated it by shelling the beach and killing a family, prompting a cycle of violence and blockade with starvation. Palestinians peacefully protested and the Israeli military shot hundreds of them. Israeli settlers engaged in a wave of pogroms in West Bank, dragging Arabs out of cars and beating them and burning down towns. (Also settler raids on Al Aqsa) The first 9 months of 2023 were the deadliest year for Palestinians in 20 years, so Hamas retaliated on October 7 as they warned they would.
Hamas has said explicitly that this was not a war they were hoping for but all their other options were closed.
I don’t treat Hamas statements of motive as being in any way accurate. Their entire reason for existence is to kill off the Israelis. They trained for this war for years and prepared by diverting a significant fraction of the Gaza economy into tunnels and weapons.
They wanted this, and they can end it by releasing the hostages and dismantling their military infrastructure.
Hamas has a clear charter and consistent speeches; liberating Palestine from Israeli control. You might not trust them but they’ve been consistent in calling for a Two State Solution since 2004, they kept the majority of ceasefires (Israel broke more ceasefires over the last 20 years than Hamas did) and since Netanyahu has spent years undermining Abbas it means Hamas has more public trust than he does. I don’t trust Likud either since their public charter calls for the total elimination of Palestine, but he’s in power and have to deal with him.
You act like releasing the hostages would end the war. Netanyahu publicly promised that even if all hostages were returned the war would not stop. That’s why he refuses all offers for a ceasefire in exchange for all hostages. He doesn’t care about them, and Israeli protestors and the opposition parties agree.
Likud wanted this fight, and could end it by allowing a two state solution. That would even undermine Hamas politically and give political credence to Abbas and other moderates. But Netanyahu intentionally spent 17 years obstructing that and trapping himself into this corner he made for himself.
“Liberating” means killing everybody. They showed that they might actually do it, so until they’re willing to give up on that, they can’t actually get a two state solution
Ahh missed that it was only some in the first phase, that makes a bit more sense and might be the difference maker.
I agree any long term peace was always going to require the release of all hostages/prisoners from both sides. Also need to end the apartheid laws in Israel and allow Palestine full rights statehood.
They’re being asked to release some, but not all hostages during the first phase. That leaves them with a bargaining chip until the Israeli army withdraws. Any sustainable peace is going to ultimately involve Hamas releasing all the hostages.
The problem is that reports (from within the Israeli media) are that Israel won’t end the war for a deal to free all the hostages. And “the war will not end until all of its goals are achieved, including the return of all our hostages and the elimination of Hamas’ military and governmental capabilities”. And they won’t accept outside peacekeepers, they demand to maintain a role in managing Gaza’s security beyond the end of the conflict.
So there’s a lot of reason to believe that Phase II is never intended to resolve in a cease fire. Their demands in the negotiations are eliminating the group they’re negotiating with and then reestablishing the occupation of Gaza. That’s not really a negotiation.
Which is why Hamas should dismantle those capabilities and allow for election of a government which is willing to make peace as part of any deal.
LOL. “Bad people should be self-sacrificing for the good of others.” If we’re going to talk in such fantasies, Benjamin Netanyahu should go present himself to the people of Gaza and accept whatever judgement they believe is appropriate for his crimes against them.
Their own good too; they’ve got the capacity to have a decent life for themselves instead of living in a bunch of tunnels with occasional excursions to shoot at somebody.
Instead, Hamas is choosing to put the population of Gaza through a war.
That’s completely incorrect from the Palestinian POV. The Palestinians elected Fatah and Abbas, who had a policy of nonviolence and Israel continued to steal land and shoot Palestinians as a result. Palestinians went to the UN to complain and Israel blocked it and sanctioned Palestinians as a result. Palestinians copied Israel and elected a rightwing party Hamas, a party with a similar platform to fight back and squeeze the other side for concessions. Hamas proposed a ceasefire but Israel violated it by shelling the beach and killing a family, prompting a cycle of violence and blockade with starvation. Palestinians peacefully protested and the Israeli military shot hundreds of them. Israeli settlers engaged in a wave of pogroms in West Bank, dragging Arabs out of cars and beating them and burning down towns. (Also settler raids on Al Aqsa) The first 9 months of 2023 were the deadliest year for Palestinians in 20 years, so Hamas retaliated on October 7 as they warned they would.
Hamas has said explicitly that this was not a war they were hoping for but all their other options were closed.
I don’t treat Hamas statements of motive as being in any way accurate. Their entire reason for existence is to kill off the Israelis. They trained for this war for years and prepared by diverting a significant fraction of the Gaza economy into tunnels and weapons.
They wanted this, and they can end it by releasing the hostages and dismantling their military infrastructure.
Hamas has a clear charter and consistent speeches; liberating Palestine from Israeli control. You might not trust them but they’ve been consistent in calling for a Two State Solution since 2004, they kept the majority of ceasefires (Israel broke more ceasefires over the last 20 years than Hamas did) and since Netanyahu has spent years undermining Abbas it means Hamas has more public trust than he does. I don’t trust Likud either since their public charter calls for the total elimination of Palestine, but he’s in power and have to deal with him.
You act like releasing the hostages would end the war. Netanyahu publicly promised that even if all hostages were returned the war would not stop. That’s why he refuses all offers for a ceasefire in exchange for all hostages. He doesn’t care about them, and Israeli protestors and the opposition parties agree.
Likud wanted this fight, and could end it by allowing a two state solution. That would even undermine Hamas politically and give political credence to Abbas and other moderates. But Netanyahu intentionally spent 17 years obstructing that and trapping himself into this corner he made for himself.
“Liberating” means killing everybody. They showed that they might actually do it, so until they’re willing to give up on that, they can’t actually get a two state solution
Ahh missed that it was only some in the first phase, that makes a bit more sense and might be the difference maker.
I agree any long term peace was always going to require the release of all hostages/prisoners from both sides. Also need to end the apartheid laws in Israel and allow Palestine full rights statehood.
Edit:
And looks like Israel rejected it.