- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
Telegraph investigation reveals those on front line are being exposed to gases banned during wartime
Russian troops are carrying out a systematic campaign of illegal chemical attacks against Ukrainian soldiers, according to a Telegraph investigation.
The Telegraph spoke to a number of Ukrainian soldiers deployed in positions across the front line who detailed how their positions have been coming under near daily attacks from small drones, mainly dropping tear gas but also other chemicals.
The use of such gas, which is known as CS and commonly used by riot police, is banned during wartime under the Chemical WeaponsConvention.
Ihor, the commander of a Ukrainian reconnaissance team who is deployed near the front line city of Chasiv Yar, in Donetsk Oblast, told The Telegraph: “Nearly every position in our area of the front was getting one or two gas grenades dropped on them a day.”
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Important legal context: the origin of this Geneva ban is not only that gas weapons are atrocious, but that your foe might doesn’t know what gas has been fired and may reply to CS with gnarlier chemical weapons. The treaty also names the issue that the offending forces may, inadvertently or perfidiously, not know or mix up what gas they’re sending downrange.
This is a big fuckin’ deal in the current conflict. Russia uses a near-identical gas grenade for both CS and nerve gas, in Soviet era crates and stockpiles handled by the hard-luck HIMARS catchers in their logistics chain. If they fuck that up or a pissed off Buryat conscript wants vengeance via sabotage, a whiff of bad-boy gas on the wrong wind could make things extremely spicy.
I like how colloquial this got over the course of reading.
Russia and Israel are really competing on who can do more war crimes.
Russia doesn’t stand a chance.
Sure, they can try, but their soldiers are still asshole humans at the end of the day.
If they manage to occupy Ukraine they’ll probably win the warcrime game but yea currently they can just torture and kill POWs and try to bomb civilians from far away. At the start of the war they were definitely winning on war crimes with the civilian mass graves.
I think what Russia is banking on is the rise of the global far-right, where the newly emerging far-right will remove “political correctness” from war, and also Russia is pretty infamous for information control, so they can just say “Ukronazis did it” or something like that until everyone accepts that as a hard fact.
Look, the Russians are the mike Tyson of war crimes. Even ‘boxing isnt shit’ guys who are serious fighters are nervous stepping into the ring with him, even in his twilight years. Russia is absolutely a warcrimer for the history books.
But kapostan is the ‘Bruce Lee and Mohammed Ali did some anime shit and are somehow the same guy now, and have spikey blond hair for some fucking reason’ of war crimes. They’re just the best. They do nothing else. It is their whole being; they are pure uncut atrocity.
Nice try Nazi fuck.
For saying Russians will never be as good at warcrimes as the Zionist place, or for saying Russian soldiers are assholes?
See I don’t even know what the people who wrote the bots are trying to discourage me from saying when they baselessly call me a Nazi anymore.
It’s like those Russian policemen arresting that lady who went to red square to support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Everyone’s a Nazi unless they repeat the propaganda like parrots, and even then…
Fascism doesn’t stop killing. You flatten the territory to match the map (with killing) and then you make a simpler map, which is now simpler than the territory…
Fucking Kurt Gödel proved it can’t work.
You misspelled “Hamas” there. Russia and Hamas have been having quite a competition. Last time I checked they’re still raping hostages to death.
Not really. Hamas has done some awful shit but Israel and Russia are in a different league of bad. I’m sure if Hamas had the weapons and money Israel does it would be worthy competition but as it stands they just aren’t in the running.
thanks for outing yourself so I can block you 👋🏻
Last time I checked they’re still raping hostages to death.
Source?
Kinda hard to negotiate if they run out of hostages no?
Fuck, maybe people should take hostages more often since it’s so effective as a bargaining tool.
They’re not really there to negotiate. I think that plan flew out of the window when they realized that Israel doesn’t care about the hostages.
Hamas would have to commit 20 x October 7ths in order to achieve the cruelty Israel willingly carried out among civilians of Gaza—and aid workers—half of the dead being women and children.
Your response? Something-something, “ends justify the means”?
They’re all bad. Including all of the English speaking developed western democracies
War is bad. It’s not like this is a new revelation. War has been fucking terrible and also completely avoidable since the dawn of time.
Of course they are 😕 God, they just have no shame. How will they pay for these war crimes?
They won’t. In fact, if they win, they will be rewarded by rewriting their own version of history while enjoying the land they’ve stolen.
The only repercussion possible is for them to lose the war. That way, they will have spent all of their resources and countless lives for nothing.
They cannot be held accountable, no matter the outcome. That’s why ignoring rules works for perfectly them.
I don’t understand how we can have these international laws without any enforcing. Very frustrating.
This is how all laws work, its just with international law, the only people shitty enough to break the big ones are the people they protect but do not bind.
So this is how all laws work except it’s very different? Or how would I interpret this? What is how all laws work?
They’re not there to protect the weak from the strong. They exist to facilitate division, and keep the weak weak by cutting out dangerous(to power) elements while keeping the objections of the populace at large minimal.
Tools for exploitation, wearing a protector’s mask.
I dunno if I believe that to be 100% true, regarding the “all laws” part. But definitely a substantial amount true, for sure, sadly.
I’m sure some were intended otherwise; I’ll give you that, but they’re all used the same way, the institutions around them are all pretty die hard about that, etc.
Agreed 100%.
Removed by mod
How will they pay for these war crimes?
Community and instance rules prevent me from answering honestly
How will they pay for these war crimes?
By having to read strongly worded statements from the west.
Sweet, sweet, justice. 🤡
You really think they actually read them?
Of course. They gather all information they can, to use, leverage or play off of in ways that suits them. They’re no spring chickens when it comes to the information game.
You say that, but they did nothing to stop ISIS terrorists from murdering people despite warnings from other countries about what their own intelligence agencies found. Kinda seems like their intelligence capabilities might not be as great as they are purported to be.
I think you’re better off lookin at someone’s track record instead of pointing to one specific event. Outliers are everywhere and mistakes happen to the best of us. Besides, Putin’s regime has bombed its own country before to amass public support for war, so it’s hard to tell how much they knew about this one in advance. They might have thought it was a good opportunity to get more people to support the war and join the military by blaming the west and Ukraine.
Disgusting, but yeah, totally plausible for Putin’s regime.
That’s the neat part. If you have nukes, you don’t.
By dying in stupid but amusing ways, like ringing a doorbell on a tree and being turned into red mist?
This sounds suspiciously stupid. Please tell me this happened.
I saw that earlier and I loved the honesty of one of the speakers: “Honestly, I would have poked it.”
Because, I mean, same.
I know it’d be dumb as all fuck, but BUTTON ON TREE
The human compulsion to Push The Button is strong.
Those are only the ones who follow orders though. How can we get the people who give orders to use the gas?
If identified, they’ll never be able to leave Russia (plus a few other countries) without being arrested and sent to The Hague. Sometimes, it takes awhile and sometimes, a war criminal is never brought to justice (see: Kissinger). But Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova already have arrests warrants out for one war crime (kidnapping Ukrainian children). Putin had to video conference into a BRICS summit because South Africa is one of the 124 countries that recognizes the International Criminal Court.
Interesting, wow. Thank you for that.
The UA seems to have pretty good reach these days, I wouldn’t be surprised if they delivered justice packed into a Cessna, attached to some drones, etc. or maybe some Russians who are fed up with being ground to dust for the oligarch’s profit will take action.
Those rich assholes aren’t as safe as they might like to think.
Let’s hope you’re right.
I like to try and be optimistic!
PUTIN FOR DEFENESTRATION, 2024!
🤞😄
And generally speaking; gas is less effective than the same mass/volume of bomb. Literally handicapping themselves to be dicks.
I imagine they are using everything they have right now, including everything in their no-no storages.
Makes sense. So dumb that the Russian people haven’t killed their masters and ended this shit.
You know, that’s almost the thing that baffles me the most about human history. Majority of wars fought in the modern era seems like entire armies are just blindly obeying their masters. 1 person tells thousand upon thousands, “go forth and kill those other men, and risk your lives! Why? Don’t ask questions!”
“Yes sir!”
Not, “wtf lol?” [storms stage and starts stabbing]
Like, risk your lives killing another army, or risk your life killing one single dude… ⚖️🧮🤔📊📈🔮🫠
And nobody benefits from any of it!
Hierarchy is a hell of a drug.
Indeed it is 😕
What good is the law if it is not enforced?
They are enforced after a war or if Russia decides to punish them. Or the UN could do something but Russia can veto.
Instead of laws, think of them as suggestions.
Instead of laws, think of them as suggestions.
Good tip, applies to all laws
It’s a convention, not a law. States still have to pass laws to turn those into actually enforceable laws, called ratification (as opposed to mere signing which doesn’t really mean much but moral support from the state’s executive). And then it has to enforce those laws, also, not feel like breaking them.
The enforcement mechanism the international community has against states doing such things is to shitcan them. But Russia’s in there anyway and nobody is going to escalate militarily over CS gas and it’s not like Ukraine could counter-attack with ABC weapons if they wanted to, so… that leaves non-military escalation. Which includes sending Ukraine more weapons, of course. In a sense you should thank the Russians for giving Ukraine yet another good argument, the military efficacy of CS gas certainly doesn’t cover the cost using it could incur for the Russians.
Is it really worth going to war over if a law could stop you from doing something?
Oh so cops can use it against random climate protesters, but not in a war?
I appreciate the good will, but wtf?
Yes, because climate protestors are not going to think it’s nerve gas or something and respond with their own chemical weapons attack.
It’s banned in war because of the problems in war. Those problems generally do not exist in regular domestic policing.
Oh yes, its all about strategy.
It’s about saving lives and preventing suffering.
Tear gas bath is a rite of passage for any good citizen. If the Govt tear gasses you, you’re probably doing something right.
Well maybe. The gov also tear gasses every hopeful cop in the academy and everyone in boot camp. Like, on purpose in an enclosed space “so they know how to fight through it.”
deleted by creator
Far right rag is Paywalled.
Not corroborated anywhere else.
Oh well
TIL Portland is Ukraine.
Tear gas is very tame. This really isn’t the case to make a big deal out of.
Israel has been tear gassing Gaza and the West bank for years but they also committed a gazillion white phosphorus chemical attacks in Gaza and Lebanon which are far more dangerous chemicals. Didn’t see the Telegraph using “chemical weapon” headlines for that one.
Questions and Answers on Israel’s Use of White Phosphorus in Gaza and Lebanon
Human Rights Watch has determined based on verified video and witness accounts that Israeli forces used white phosphorus in military operations in Lebanon and Gaza on October 10 and 11, 2023, respectively. The videos show multiple airbursts of artillery-fired white phosphorus over the Gaza City port and two rural locations along the Israel-Lebanon border.
White phosphorus, which can be used as a smokescreen or a weapon, has the potential to cause civilian harm due to the severe burns it causes and its lingering long-term effects on survivors. Its use in densely populated areas of Gaza violates the requirement under international humanitarian law that parties to the conflict take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian injury and loss of life. It also highlights the need to reexamine the status and adequacy of Protocol III of the Convention on Conventional Weapons (CCW), currently the only international law dedicated to governing incendiary weapons.
I have a feeling that you would not be commenting “tear gas is very tame” if this article was about Israel using it in Gaza
I have a feeling you’re completely wrong.
Israel has shot the Al Aqsa mosque with it yesterday which is in the West Bank and thus also not in their own country making it a similar war crime. Except israel has been doing this for years.
Israeli Forces Fire Tear Gas on Worshipers at Al-Aqsa on Muslim Holy Day
Using it outside an active war zone on a place of worship and not on soldiers but civilians really gets that israeli war crime multipliers going.
Classifying tear gas as a “illegal chemical attack” is really taking all meaning out of that term. It’s pure clickbait that makes it seem as if they were using mustard gas or some really deadly chemical.
White Phosphorus on the other hand, which israel uses in excess in Gaza, is an extremely toxic chemical that will leave life long damage and burns.
You talking about Russia doing it: “Classifying tear gas as a ‘illegal chemical attack’ is really taking all meaning out of that term.”
You talking about Israel doing it: “making it a similar war crime,” and “…really gets that israeli war crime multipliers going.”
…yeah I’m gonna stand by what I said
Using it outside an active war zone on a place of worship and not on soldiers but civilians really gets that israeli war crime multipliers going.
Tear Gas is literally legal to use on civilians as an anti-riot tool but not on military personnel. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Classifying tear gas as a “illegal chemical attack” is really taking all meaning out of that term. It’s pure clickbait that makes it seem as if they were using mustard gas or some really deadly chemical.
Take it up with the Geneva Convention, they’re the ones who made it illegal to use in combat, mainly because any chemical gas is bad to use in war, regardless of its lethality.
White Phosphorus on the other hand, which israel uses in excess in Gaza, is an extremely toxic chemical that will leave life long damage and burns.
You mean white phosphorus that Russia has also been using? I wouldn’t even really bring this one up though, not only is it a different type of restriction than the chemical weapons ban, it’s also way way way way way more commonly abused because of the “smokescreen exemption”.
Using phosphorus as a toxic substance is inefficient as fuck. Most of the concerns about white phosphorous use are around use as incendiary ammunitions, which is a no-go anywhere around civilians. Napalm, white phosphorus, heck, Molotov cocktails, doesn’t matter.
You do realize that the west bank is not israeli territory and that Palestinians are not their civilians right?
You got downvoted, but if Palestinians are constantly held in military prisons and convicted by military court, it goes to reason that they should be considered as combatants for other purposes as well.
