Savannah Graziano, 15, was fatally shot a day after an Amber Alert was issued for her in September 2022. Newly released video and recordings show that she was killed by deputies.
Facts matter. I’m not in the position to defend anyone, as it’s hard to know exactly what happened, even after watching the video several times.
What matters is the police killed the person they were trying to save.
When you’re in a situation where bullets are flying from both the “'good” and “bad” guy, innocent victims can, and do, get killed. This happens more often than you’d think, and there isn’t a perfect way to end a situation like this. Everyone’s life is at risk when you’ve got a murderer in a car not willing to surrender.
The narrative that all those officers, except for one, wanted the KIDNAP VICTIM to be shot and killed is so deranged and incomprehensible outside an American mindset.
Let’s not lose focus here. The father who kidnapped her is ultimately the one to blame. His actions led to her death.
So it was the cops who woke up that day and said “I want to kill an innocent girl today”, rather than the guy who actually got up with the intention to kill his family?
We obviously have two different perspectives, but I could never see it that way.
Its not a binary choice and presenting it as such is manipulative. Those cops where there to do what?
If it was to protect the populous then they failed miserably, shooting wildly into the public many times.
If it was to save the girl then they failed completely when they murdered her.
If it was to show everyone they are in control and had the situation in hand then they failed spectacularly when they made the whole situation into chaos.
If it was to bring the father to justice for intending to kill his family then they failed tragically when they helped him out by killing his family for him.
The idea that no matter what the cops do its the accused fault is so ass backwards to anyone outside of the USA. These chuckle fucks made a bad situation much worse while showing off their massive incompetence. Hell what would have happen if they all did not show up for work that day?
Why did they attempt it then?.. All they had to do was not be so trigger happy…
From what I understand from the reporting, they may not have been aware if there was a danger or not.
She ran out wearing tactical gear, and they allegedly had reason to believe she may have been involved in the prior shooting(s).
Miscommunication? Likely.
Keep in mind that these are regular officers, not the SWAT or tactical unit. They have some very limited training for these situations, but can’t be perfect in their execution, especially in an uncontrolled environment such as a madman with a gun who’s in control of a moving vehicle.
Even in cases where a suspect is barricaded in a home and has someone hostage, there’s a very real risk of harm to the victim. It’s a miracle when nobody gets hurt, but noone can predict the outcome.
Even in cases where a suspect is barricaded in a home and has someone hostage, there’s a very real risk of harm to the victim. It’s a miracle when nobody gets hurt, but noone can predict the outcome.
I can predict that a bunch of yahoos opening fire irresponsibly into a hostage situation is cartoon levels of stupid that will lead to outcomes that are “undesirable”.
In this case it is compounded by the fact she was told to walk towards the cops and while doing so was killed. There is no feasible explanation on the actions of the cops, and since you replied to my question with further damnation by saying “they may not have been aware if there was a danger or not.” we can clearly put this down as a boondoggle at best.
A more long term issue is the more and more of these crappy cop reactions to almost any situation happen and are shared, when does it become rational to open fire on cops preemptively? If you are just as likely to get killed by following directions then why not try and take a few with you?
This will not end well for anyone, and the more people make piss poor excuses for poor police behaviour the worse it will be.
The narrative that all those officers, except for one, wanted the KIDNAP VICTIM to be shot and killed is so deranged and incomprehensible outside an American mindset.
The idea that you have to have wanted something to happen to face consequences for it happening is going to set a lot of folks free from prison though.
The idea that you have to have wanted something to happen to face consequences for it happening is going to set a lot of folks free from prison though.
No, because the justice system balances the sentence based on intent. Homicide, 2nd degree murder, 1st degree murder, etc.
This is why drivers who run over pedestrians often get no jail time, while someone who plows into pedestrians on purpose goes to jail for a long time.
You could most certainly make a case that the officers could have been negligent, which caused someone to be killed.
Really? I do think there should be accountability and consequences.
What degree of consequences depends, I guess, on how much animosity one might have towards law enforcement. I don’t think that’s a very balanced way of looking at things.
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Facts matter. I’m not in the position to defend anyone, as it’s hard to know exactly what happened, even after watching the video several times.
When you’re in a situation where bullets are flying from both the “'good” and “bad” guy, innocent victims can, and do, get killed. This happens more often than you’d think, and there isn’t a perfect way to end a situation like this. Everyone’s life is at risk when you’ve got a murderer in a car not willing to surrender.
The narrative that all those officers, except for one, wanted the KIDNAP VICTIM to be shot and killed is so deranged and incomprehensible outside an American mindset.
Let’s not lose focus here. The father who kidnapped her is ultimately the one to blame. His actions led to her death.
This is a wild take. These cops (all of them present) are to blame for where the rounds from their firearms go.
So it was the cops who woke up that day and said “I want to kill an innocent girl today”, rather than the guy who actually got up with the intention to kill his family?
We obviously have two different perspectives, but I could never see it that way.
Its not a binary choice and presenting it as such is manipulative. Those cops where there to do what?
If it was to protect the populous then they failed miserably, shooting wildly into the public many times.
If it was to save the girl then they failed completely when they murdered her.
If it was to show everyone they are in control and had the situation in hand then they failed spectacularly when they made the whole situation into chaos.
If it was to bring the father to justice for intending to kill his family then they failed tragically when they helped him out by killing his family for him.
The idea that no matter what the cops do its the accused fault is so ass backwards to anyone outside of the USA. These chuckle fucks made a bad situation much worse while showing off their massive incompetence. Hell what would have happen if they all did not show up for work that day?
I don’t disagree. It was a total failure on their part, but a situation like that one really had a very slim chance of success.
Why did they attempt it then? I am sorry but poor choices in when to engage and how are still on the cops here.
All they had to do was not be so trigger happy, people need to be held responsible for the bullets that are coming out of the firearm in their hands.
From what I understand from the reporting, they may not have been aware if there was a danger or not.
She ran out wearing tactical gear, and they allegedly had reason to believe she may have been involved in the prior shooting(s).
Miscommunication? Likely.
Keep in mind that these are regular officers, not the SWAT or tactical unit. They have some very limited training for these situations, but can’t be perfect in their execution, especially in an uncontrolled environment such as a madman with a gun who’s in control of a moving vehicle.
Even in cases where a suspect is barricaded in a home and has someone hostage, there’s a very real risk of harm to the victim. It’s a miracle when nobody gets hurt, but noone can predict the outcome.
I can predict that a bunch of yahoos opening fire irresponsibly into a hostage situation is cartoon levels of stupid that will lead to outcomes that are “undesirable”.
In this case it is compounded by the fact she was told to walk towards the cops and while doing so was killed. There is no feasible explanation on the actions of the cops, and since you replied to my question with further damnation by saying “they may not have been aware if there was a danger or not.” we can clearly put this down as a boondoggle at best.
A more long term issue is the more and more of these crappy cop reactions to almost any situation happen and are shared, when does it become rational to open fire on cops preemptively? If you are just as likely to get killed by following directions then why not try and take a few with you?
This will not end well for anyone, and the more people make piss poor excuses for poor police behaviour the worse it will be.
The idea that you have to have wanted something to happen to face consequences for it happening is going to set a lot of folks free from prison though.
No, because the justice system balances the sentence based on intent. Homicide, 2nd degree murder, 1st degree murder, etc.
This is why drivers who run over pedestrians often get no jail time, while someone who plows into pedestrians on purpose goes to jail for a long time.
You could most certainly make a case that the officers could have been negligent, which caused someone to be killed.
Then why is your entire contribution to the thread a deflection of any suggestion of consequences?
Really? I do think there should be accountability and consequences.
What degree of consequences depends, I guess, on how much animosity one might have towards law enforcement. I don’t think that’s a very balanced way of looking at things.