First off, let me start by saying I’m a big proponent of donations as a means of supporting platforms like Lemmy, and their hosts. This approach, when carried out in the spirit of transparency and community engagement, can do wonders for the growth and sustainability.
Hosting an instance myself, I’m fully aware of the costs associated with running servers, handling traffic, and providing the best possible experience for users. I am Lucky that im in a position where right now I am able to wear that coat, but I am more than willing to financially support other instances where I find value (and I have), and I have no doubt many of you feel the same way. But while we’re on this topic, I think it’s important to talk about financial transparency.
As users, we entrust these platforms with our time, our discussions, and in the case of donations, our hard-earned money. I believe it’s fair to ask for a little insight into how our contributions are being used. What proportion goes towards server costs, maintenance, development,staffing, or perhaps even community projects?
My hope is for Lemmy instances to set a precedent by adopting an ‘open book’ policy when it comes to spending. It would be a great step towards fostering trust and engagement in our community.
There are plenty of platforms out there which handle donations, but I wonder if there’s one that already facilitates such transparency? If not, I believe it would be a worthy endeavor to find or create one that does.
Would you appreciate more transparency on how donations are spent? And do you know of any donation platforms that encourage this level of openness? Your feedback is always appreciated, as at some point, I may need to do the same.
lemmy.world already does this with opencollective: https://opencollective.com/mastodonworld
Love that, I will be implementing the same.
The expense descriptions are very disappointing, they’re so vague and don’t actually explain what the money is spent on
There are more details in the blog: https://blog.mastodon.world/
Wish the donations were tax deductible. Would donate more.
Does this also include Patreon funds?
that link is only for expenses via opencollective, they have more detailed breakdowns (obviously not accountant-level stuff) on their blog: https://blog.mastodon.world/
Awesome thanks! All this stuff should really be pulled together and made available in one place, hopefully there are plans - communication and transparency are key, I think!
You’re really helping a lot of people, it’s awesome.
Totally agree! Some kind of ledger on what money comes in and where it goes out would be good. The more automation the better so we don’t have to rely on a human element to update it and raise the risk of misinformation.
Yeh. I don’t even mind big staff spends. But the concept of being open book, goes well with an open sourced, decentralised platform.
Anything that ensures honesty and transparency is good in the long term IMO
I completely agree. It would be fantastic to see instances, both big and small, openly donating to the source code developers. Knowing the percentage of their income that goes towards this would also bring a welcomed layer of transparency.
I think you raise a very valuable topic.
Obviously it’s going to be up to each Instance owner, but that cuts both ways. While we could never get every owner to participate, particularly any that aspire to being businesses as opposed to public services, some certainly should be willing to submit some basic financials.
These Instance owners would certainly gain trust and goodwill from their users for doing so. Though how you prevent fraud I have no idea. We’re not exactly the FTC here, we don’t really have investigators that can verify submitted information.
I agree. That’s why I’m interested if there’s a platform that actually shows how much has been donated. And how much has been drawn down.
Even the amount donated would foster transparency.
Beyond that, it would likely be up to us, the users, to see whether we continue to donate.
Yep. Someone just shared it. I love it. If the time ever comes, I will be implementing the same.
Am I the only one who think they can use the money as they please? Just do crack and prostitutes, who cares. Instances are not controlling anything, why it matters? Just keep source code open and if you are too high on drugs someone else can take over and people can jump to another instance. Just complete the tools to perform instance to instance migration.
FOSS is not normal corporate world, were you have to be scared of the people running the show.
Edit: just to make sure that single instance doesnt get too much power. I.e. meta joining can be problem. If no single entity has enough power to control the whole show, then users are in power.
Certainly, the decentralized nature of our platforms means instance operators have the freedom to spend their donations as they wish - be it on personal indulgences like drugs and prostitution, or anything else.
However, I feel there’s a responsibility that comes with earning income through these platforms. I would love to see transparency on whether, and how much of, that income is given back to support the development of the source code - the very code that enables them to generate income for such expenses in the first place.
So, while I’m not here to pass judgement on the choice to spend on drugs and prostitution, I do think it’s important to acknowledge and support the foundation that allows these instances to exist and thrive.
Sure, users are in control, if they choose to choose instance that opens their books, then should be able to do so. This causes a positive loop of openness, which is never a bad thing.
If some instance clearly states that they will use money on self interest, I might donate to them out of respect.
I agree transparency is a good thing in this space.
There are already services that allow for some level of transparency in terms of how donations are spend, like https://opencollective.com
But perhaps there are others that provide similar tools?
Yeh. A couple of people have posted that. It’s what I would use.
Also, It would be fantastic to see instances, both big and small, openly donating to the source code developers. Knowing the percentage of their income that goes towards this would also bring a welcomed layer of transparency.
Agreed. It’s one of the reasons I enjoy being a monthly Patreon to Lemmy.world. Ruud and the admin team post updates to blog.mastodon.world, and through Open Collective highlight their outflows and inflows of cash.
It’s a best practice for building transparent communities. By sharing information, and showcasing where a person’s donations go, it builds confidence in a team of volunteers by a network. Also, for curious types like me, I can see what’s happening.
As a side benefit, it allows for teams to build resources and establish new projects, like Lemmy.world. Which is excellent.
Aussie.zone recently posted it’s financials https://aussie.zone/post/243913
I’m not a member there, but if you could share https://opencollective.com/ With them, and as someone else posted here: https://opencollective.com/mastodonworld
As an example, I think it would really suit what they are trying to achieve.
Nice. Good on them.
It’s not a big deal but I personally don’t agree. If I’m using an instance and I appreciate their work I donate money to them. There is nothing wrong with them making a profit or even a living off the site if I enjoy it and it guarantees it’s maintenance and upkeep.
The harsh reality is that Reddit users created the situation to a degree over there. Any attempts Reddit made to try to make a profit were basically shot down.
Any kind of public ledger is going to do is open up every fucking person’s judgment as to how the money is being spent. Even if you just have 5,000 users there’s no way you’re going to get any two retards to actually agree what’s appropriate and how do we ever decide what their compensation for their time should be? Is that up to us to say?
If you like the site just donate it. It’s no different than giving money to a homeless person. It ain’t your job to decide how they want to spend it. If you want to give them a meal then give them a meal but if you want to give them five bucks then don’t give a shit whether they go by a bottle of liquor or a sandwich. Just do your good deed and move on…
A well-made instance should charge an annual per user fee and I don’t give a shit what they do with it as long as I feel like the site is being developed and maintained well.
That is certainly valid and I understand where you’re coming from.
I do agree that if someone enjoys a site and wants to support its maintenance and development, they should feel free to donate. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with an instance making a profit or even a living from their hard work.
However, where I respectfully diverge in opinion is on the aspect of transparency. I see an inherent value in it, particularly in our open-source, decentralized community. I’m not proposing we audit every expense or dictate how someone should be compensated for their time. Rather, I’m interested in fostering a culture of openness, particularly regarding contributions back to the source code development.
This source code is the foundation of all our instances, the very groundwork that allows them to exist. In my opinion, seeing an instance openly contribute back to this vital element is highly commendable. It’s this specific aspect that informs my decision on whether, and how much, I’m willing to donate.
Just like you judge the worthiness of your donations based on the development and maintenance of the site, I make my judgments based on their contributions back to the source code. I’d even love to see big instances donating and growing smaller instances.
It’s simply about differing priorities, and I believe there’s room for all perspectives in our diverse community.
Anything that ensures honesty and transparency is good in the long term IMO
My home instance VLemmy.net has an Open Collective page already, just donated to it :) I do like this idea for other instances too.
