My problem with bubble zones is that they’re A) difficult to enforce, and B) protesting should be inconvenient. If we only allow protests in certain places, they’re extremely easy to ignore. This goes for any kind of protest on any issue.
In an ideal world, I don’t really want kids exposed to protests. But protests are only really effective when they take place where you don’t want them. If protests for trans rights only ever took place in a cordoned off area safely away from everyone, they wouldn’t be very effective either.
Parents should have a say what is being taught to their kids. LGBT values are an invasive culture change that is being pushed on kids without the interests of the parents in mind. This was equally true of the way Christianity was pushed on kids. I have always supported the secularization of schools. I don’t want the government teaching my kid what to believe. They should learn fact-based sciences and important life skills, values should be taught by the parents.
For the record, I’ve been an LGBT supporter all of my life. I’ve always preached acceptance of other people no matter their beliefs or circumstances. I’ve only recently had to start pushing back because I believe certain parts of the LGBT culture are not suitable for children. It does not make you evil or a bigot to seek compromise. We all have to live together in this nation, we need to find ways to make peace with each other.
For the record, I’ve been an LGBT supporter all of my life.
No, I’m afraid you haven’t been. For example, there was that time you wrote:
LGBT values are an invasive culture change that is being pushed on kids without the interests of the parents in mind.
Some of those kids are gay, some are bi, some are trans, some are ace, some are intersex, the list goes on. Every one of them deserves acceptance and support, whether their parents agree or not. A queer child’s safety and well-being shouldn’t depend on winning the supportive-parent(s) lottery. And even with a supportive parent, a hostile school environment can lead to suicidal ideation. Any guess as to how I know that?
I’ve only recently had to start pushing back because I believe certain parts of the LGBT culture are not suitable for children.
Sure, but which parts do you mean? Because lately, the rhetoric has mostly been about “drag queen story hour” which is really just reading books while playing fancy dress-up. There’s nothing inherently harmful or even sexualized about it.
I’m guessing that “certain parts” for them is simply trans people being visible. They should be aware of the high risk of suicide as they claim they were formally a therapist in a past comment, but they disagree with the value of gender affirming care so I really doubt there’s any semblence of compassion for queer people in that ugly little heart of theirs. What kind of person reviews the body of evidence that shows it saves lives and think “this LGBTQ stuff is going too far”, jfc
Hah! To true. He supports LGBT rights…to be somewhere else.
I’m curious what they mean by “certain parts of the LGBT culture are not suitable for children”. I’m assuming he means the sex, so sure. But that’s a bit of a strawman. No one says that accepting Timmy having a Mom and a Dad means they are indoctrinating Timmy to raw-dawg it. Likewise Tommy having two Moms or Tammy having two Dads isn’t advocating a specific sexual practice. Or at least not any more directly than so-called “traditional values” would supposedly advocate the raw-dawging.
I guess it’s the old “I’m not a racist, some of my best friends are [insert race identifier here], but…” has been around for a long time. This is just “I’m an LGBT supporter, but they shouldn’t be allowed to exist in polite society” or something.
I guess it’s the old “I’m not a racist, some of my best friends are [insert race identifier here], but…” has been around for a long time. This is just “I’m an LGBT supporter, but they shouldn’t be allowed to exist in polite society” or something.
Yup. “I don’t mind that they exist, as long as I don’t have to see them” is a shithead opinion as old as time. Sometimes it’s racist, sometimes it’s sexist, sometimes it’s classist, sometimes it’s homophobic, sometimes it’s transphobic, but it’s always the same thing. It’s 'other’ist, people looking for another group of people they can look down on and hate.
It’s a very good motivator, if you’re an unscrupulous politician looking to exploit people’s biases
They should learned fact-based sciences and important life skills, values should be taught by the parents.
While I can agree with this in theory, I think it is impossible in practice. We like to think that science is objective and that all decisions can be made in a bubble. However, everything is intertwined and human subjectivity is always present in science.
For example, intersex people are a fact. Some people can have both male and female sex organs. In addition, some people are sexually attracted to people of the same sex - this behaviour is present across the animal kingdom. Yet, if you taught this in a school, parents would complain about the “values” that these facts represent.
In addition, where do you draw the line with secularization? Schools take time off for Christmas and Easter, which are Christian holidays. Sure, you can rename them “winter break” and “spring break” - and yet, the spring break still aligns with the Easter holiday each year.
This society is built on Christian values. We need to recognize its existence in our everyday lives before we can begin to confront how it is harming members of our society and negotiate new ways of thinking.
Yeah sure, and those changes will likely to be to the benefit of large corporations and make things worse for the working class.
But don’t pay attention to that, remember… having fewer paid holidays will somehow benefit non-Christians.
Come to think of it, I think something like 50% of our paid holidays are problematic in some way or another. Think of the profits I mean progressive values we could promote by eliminating them!
Is “floating holidays” a new term for vacation time? Sure yeah businesses will be completely fine with fewer stat holidays so employees will have to use their “floating holiday time” (aka vacation time) for when they want to visit their family on Christmas. This benefits non-Christians because they will no longer get time and a half if they work on Christmas! It’s a win-win proposition! With businesses getting the win-win at the expense of all employees (bot Christian and non-Christian).
It’s kinda like when they eliminated laws against shopping on Sunday. Before they did that retail workers had one day per week that they could make plans to be with their family. But now, retail workers have to be prepared to be called into work seven days a week. Can’t make plans on Sunday anymore, but it’s good to screw over all workers because it’ll upset Christians.
The logical distinction between vacation time and a floating holiday would be employers being required to approve selected floating holidays, while they can generally deny vacation time at specific times.
Whether that’s how they’re typically used. I have no idea
The photos of Muslims trampling rainbow flags indicates that this isn’t a distinctly Christian thing. And there are plenty of atheists that are transphobic too.
The main problem is we’re tribal. It’s easy to manipulate our tribal thinking to turn people against a group. Trying to turn people against Christians isn’t solving anything it’s just trying to fight tribalism with more tribalism.
To a hammer, all problems look like nails. To an atheist, all problems look like religion. Historically, this line of thinking has never made anything better, it’s only made things worse.
Let’s set aside the LGBTQ context and take another example then.
During the Convoy protests in Ottawa, the downtown schools were directly and adversely affected. Besides the health impacts of poor air quality and dangerously high decibel truck horns, kids were subjected to protests about masks that were mandatory for students attending schools and harassed by adults as they arrived.
Given the blocked streets and protests around public transit, parents had to drop off kids blocks away and let them walk in through the protesters without parental support or supervision.
There were some days that the schools had to close for safety reasons due to the risk of exploding nearby fuel stashes and unregulated open fire pits.
Imagine thinking people are so stupid that they’ll believe you’ve been 'an LGBT supporter all your life" three seconds after they read your claim that “LGBT values are an invasive culture change”. Be serious man.
Side note, what are LGBT values? I’m a lesbian, my core values are like… Competence, curiosity, integrity, courage, dependability… all of them things that can be valued and exhibited by cishet people too. Not you obviously, but others.
Big issue here is religion is based very deeply in things that are directly opposed to any reasonable understanding of how our world actually works. LGBT is based on personal feelings and desires, and there is little excuse for denying people what they say about themselves. I can say that all evidence suggests fairies do not exist, and we shouldn’t be including them in school curriculum, no matter how big of a belief group exists for them.
But you cannot argue LGBT people do not exist. I’m a boy. I like other boys. It is inexcusable that half of the world would have me arrested or murdered for the fact, and allowing that same hated to permeate our society would be an injustice.
You are the very last thing from ally. Wading through the transphobia all over your post history, you’ve clearly stated you don’t even believe in gender affirming care. If you’re constantly being told that you’re alt-right when you believe you’re not, as you claim in another comment, or need to complain how everyone calls you a bigot when you express these opinions, maybe you need to reflect a little bit more on the beliefs you’re trying to push on others. Because let’s be very clear here, you’re saying it’s unacceptable and too extreme to accept trans people for who they are. That queer people existing openly is “an invasive culture”. You’re seeking compromise over someone being able to freely be themselves, safely and without fear. Nah, bigot, YOU can be the one to compromise, and shush. Anyone pushing opinions that break the treaty of tolerance doesn’t deserve respect or consideration.
My problem with bubble zones is that they’re A) difficult to enforce, and B) protesting should be inconvenient. If we only allow protests in certain places, they’re extremely easy to ignore. This goes for any kind of protest on any issue.
In an ideal world, I don’t really want kids exposed to protests. But protests are only really effective when they take place where you don’t want them. If protests for trans rights only ever took place in a cordoned off area safely away from everyone, they wouldn’t be very effective either.
Parents should have a say what is being taught to their kids. LGBT values are an invasive culture change that is being pushed on kids without the interests of the parents in mind. This was equally true of the way Christianity was pushed on kids. I have always supported the secularization of schools. I don’t want the government teaching my kid what to believe. They should learn fact-based sciences and important life skills, values should be taught by the parents.
For the record, I’ve been an LGBT supporter all of my life. I’ve always preached acceptance of other people no matter their beliefs or circumstances. I’ve only recently had to start pushing back because I believe certain parts of the LGBT culture are not suitable for children. It does not make you evil or a bigot to seek compromise. We all have to live together in this nation, we need to find ways to make peace with each other.
No, I’m afraid you haven’t been. For example, there was that time you wrote:
Some of those kids are gay, some are bi, some are trans, some are ace, some are intersex, the list goes on. Every one of them deserves acceptance and support, whether their parents agree or not. A queer child’s safety and well-being shouldn’t depend on winning the supportive-parent(s) lottery. And even with a supportive parent, a hostile school environment can lead to suicidal ideation. Any guess as to how I know that?
Sure, but which parts do you mean? Because lately, the rhetoric has mostly been about “drag queen story hour” which is really just reading books while playing fancy dress-up. There’s nothing inherently harmful or even sexualized about it.
I’m guessing that “certain parts” for them is simply trans people being visible. They should be aware of the high risk of suicide as they claim they were formally a therapist in a past comment, but they disagree with the value of gender affirming care so I really doubt there’s any semblence of compassion for queer people in that ugly little heart of theirs. What kind of person reviews the body of evidence that shows it saves lives and think “this LGBTQ stuff is going too far”, jfc
I looked up the past comment you mentioned. And just… Wow. 😐
Hah! To true. He supports LGBT rights…to be somewhere else.
I’m curious what they mean by “certain parts of the LGBT culture are not suitable for children”. I’m assuming he means the sex, so sure. But that’s a bit of a strawman. No one says that accepting Timmy having a Mom and a Dad means they are indoctrinating Timmy to raw-dawg it. Likewise Tommy having two Moms or Tammy having two Dads isn’t advocating a specific sexual practice. Or at least not any more directly than so-called “traditional values” would supposedly advocate the raw-dawging.
I guess it’s the old “I’m not a racist, some of my best friends are [insert race identifier here], but…” has been around for a long time. This is just “I’m an LGBT supporter, but they shouldn’t be allowed to exist in polite society” or something.
Yup. “I don’t mind that they exist, as long as I don’t have to see them” is a shithead opinion as old as time. Sometimes it’s racist, sometimes it’s sexist, sometimes it’s classist, sometimes it’s homophobic, sometimes it’s transphobic, but it’s always the same thing. It’s 'other’ist, people looking for another group of people they can look down on and hate.
It’s a very good motivator, if you’re an unscrupulous politician looking to exploit people’s biases
While I can agree with this in theory, I think it is impossible in practice. We like to think that science is objective and that all decisions can be made in a bubble. However, everything is intertwined and human subjectivity is always present in science.
For example, intersex people are a fact. Some people can have both male and female sex organs. In addition, some people are sexually attracted to people of the same sex - this behaviour is present across the animal kingdom. Yet, if you taught this in a school, parents would complain about the “values” that these facts represent.
In addition, where do you draw the line with secularization? Schools take time off for Christmas and Easter, which are Christian holidays. Sure, you can rename them “winter break” and “spring break” - and yet, the spring break still aligns with the Easter holiday each year.
This society is built on Christian values. We need to recognize its existence in our everyday lives before we can begin to confront how it is harming members of our society and negotiate new ways of thinking.
So when Christians stop being the majority religion in Canada, we can change things right?
Yeah sure, and those changes will likely to be to the benefit of large corporations and make things worse for the working class.
But don’t pay attention to that, remember… having fewer paid holidays will somehow benefit non-Christians.
Come to think of it, I think something like 50% of our paid holidays are problematic in some way or another. Think of the
profitsI mean progressive values we could promote by eliminating them!Holidays are set by government, so they can simply legislate more floating holidays
Is “floating holidays” a new term for vacation time? Sure yeah businesses will be completely fine with fewer stat holidays so employees will have to use their “floating holiday time” (aka vacation time) for when they want to visit their family on Christmas. This benefits non-Christians because they will no longer get time and a half if they work on Christmas! It’s a win-win proposition! With businesses getting the win-win at the expense of all employees (bot Christian and non-Christian).
It’s kinda like when they eliminated laws against shopping on Sunday. Before they did that retail workers had one day per week that they could make plans to be with their family. But now, retail workers have to be prepared to be called into work seven days a week. Can’t make plans on Sunday anymore, but it’s good to screw over all workers because it’ll upset Christians.
The logical distinction between vacation time and a floating holiday would be employers being required to approve selected floating holidays, while they can generally deny vacation time at specific times.
Whether that’s how they’re typically used. I have no idea
The photos of Muslims trampling rainbow flags indicates that this isn’t a distinctly Christian thing. And there are plenty of atheists that are transphobic too.
The main problem is we’re tribal. It’s easy to manipulate our tribal thinking to turn people against a group. Trying to turn people against Christians isn’t solving anything it’s just trying to fight tribalism with more tribalism.
To a hammer, all problems look like nails. To an atheist, all problems look like religion. Historically, this line of thinking has never made anything better, it’s only made things worse.
Let’s set aside the LGBTQ context and take another example then.
During the Convoy protests in Ottawa, the downtown schools were directly and adversely affected. Besides the health impacts of poor air quality and dangerously high decibel truck horns, kids were subjected to protests about masks that were mandatory for students attending schools and harassed by adults as they arrived.
Given the blocked streets and protests around public transit, parents had to drop off kids blocks away and let them walk in through the protesters without parental support or supervision.
There were some days that the schools had to close for safety reasons due to the risk of exploding nearby fuel stashes and unregulated open fire pits.
Imagine thinking people are so stupid that they’ll believe you’ve been 'an LGBT supporter all your life" three seconds after they read your claim that “LGBT values are an invasive culture change”. Be serious man.
Side note, what are LGBT values? I’m a lesbian, my core values are like… Competence, curiosity, integrity, courage, dependability… all of them things that can be valued and exhibited by cishet people too. Not you obviously, but others.
Big issue here is religion is based very deeply in things that are directly opposed to any reasonable understanding of how our world actually works. LGBT is based on personal feelings and desires, and there is little excuse for denying people what they say about themselves. I can say that all evidence suggests fairies do not exist, and we shouldn’t be including them in school curriculum, no matter how big of a belief group exists for them.
But you cannot argue LGBT people do not exist. I’m a boy. I like other boys. It is inexcusable that half of the world would have me arrested or murdered for the fact, and allowing that same hated to permeate our society would be an injustice.
You are the very last thing from ally. Wading through the transphobia all over your post history, you’ve clearly stated you don’t even believe in gender affirming care. If you’re constantly being told that you’re alt-right when you believe you’re not, as you claim in another comment, or need to complain how everyone calls you a bigot when you express these opinions, maybe you need to reflect a little bit more on the beliefs you’re trying to push on others. Because let’s be very clear here, you’re saying it’s unacceptable and too extreme to accept trans people for who they are. That queer people existing openly is “an invasive culture”. You’re seeking compromise over someone being able to freely be themselves, safely and without fear. Nah, bigot, YOU can be the one to compromise, and shush. Anyone pushing opinions that break the treaty of tolerance doesn’t deserve respect or consideration.
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As an Asexual man I’m wondering which of the “LGBT values” that I would hold would be unacceptable for children?
I don’t accept that you support us, especially since I read some of your other post and, holy shit you aren’t an ally.