No, extravert is the correct psychological nomenclature. Extraversion. Extroversion was not a thing until everyone got it wrong and it had to be shoved into dictionaries. Doesn’t change a thing, “extro” is not a word. “Intro” on the other hand, is. As in “introvert”.
What, do mutants have extro-sensory perception now, too? Is there extroneous information? Extrovehicular? Extrovagance? Extrovaganza?
Sorry bud, it’s a word exactly because “everyone got it wrong and it had to be shoved into dictionaries”. Languages and the words they contain aren’t static, they evolve over time based on how people use them.
Theyre like the linguistic version of religious nutjobs. Semantics dont matter, they just want you to live your life according to a stern set of rules with no flexibility. Submit or burn in hell.
Oof, shove a bat up your ass! Do governments perform extrojudicial killings? Do we extrodite prisoners, and extropolate data, too?
Extra means “without” or “outside”. Extro has no definition, because it’s not a word. It is in opposition to “intro” which is also, GASP, a latin word, meaning “within”, or “inside”. How is this hard to understand? God I hate throngs of people being wrong at the same time.
“Extrovert” was introduced BECAUSE uneducated people used the wrong word so much they had to.
Or English comes from a broad range of roots, not just Latin, and you have a hard time admitting when you were wrong!
Not to mention you already conceded that it’s the current correct form of the word, and if you think language doesn’t change over time due to usage then you’re doubly ignorant.
Jung used “extra” and “intro”, case closed. Latin for “turning outside” and “turning inside”.
…though Jung also didn’t mean extraversion as synonymous with “sociable” or introversion with “needs to refill their tank” or whatnot, but “cognition primarily concerned with the object as opposed to the subject or the other way around”.
And the feeling of love is “just a bunch of chemical interactions” too, right?
Edit: Oh, and by the way
Why is extrovert sometimes spelled extravert?
Carl Jung based the two terms on Latin, in which “extra” means outside and “intro” means inside. A psychologist named Phyllis Blanchard later changed the spelling of the term in a paper, which played a role in the extrovert spelling becoming the predominant form.
Today, the extravert spelling is still widely used in psychology, while the extrovert spelling remains more common in popular usage.
Kaufman S. The difference between extraversion and extroversion. Scientific American.
See, that’s not “lankuake cheinkcsh”, that’s degradation of language because Phyllis got it wrong, and now everyone is.
“degradation of language” oh boy you’d hate to see how different English was 1000 years ago. Is modern English just a degradation of Anglo-Saxon? Or do we go even further back and say that all Indo-European languages are just degradations of PIE? You know that a large portion of the words that you use on a regular basis come from the exact process you describe right now, right? When exactly does normal language change become “degradation of lamguage”, is it just when you don’t like it?
Do you think that you know more about linguistics than every modern accredited linguist, to say that a certain type of language change in certain scenarios is “incorrect”? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogical_change
Linguistics is first and foremost a science, which means you don’t look at what occurs in reality and call it “wrong”. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive, and you look silly to a majority of linguists if you act like a word like “extrovert” is wrong, ESPECIALLY when it’s standard usage.
You probably think that AAVE is just “bastardized English” or that Scottish people speak wrong English.
I actually read Old English without much effort, as well as the languages it originated from, particularly Old Norse, French, and Germanic.
Degradation of language: misuse of language due to lack of education, erudition, or inclination. I can forgive some misinterpretation and adaptation, but that’s my issue. “Extro” does not make sense, unless someone got it wrong that one time and then spread it around until everyone was saying it wrong. That pisses me off, not to mention it makes me question Phyllis’s judgment on Jung’s corpus of work as a whole, she clearly didn’t read much of it.
There is a difference between a language evolving in response to changes in the environment or the human condition, and a language degrading into “barbar” because nobody bothered to learn how to speak, and thereby write, correctly. I believe that there are no 1:1 transmutations of words in such a manner which wouldn’t remove some amount of information, and the degradation of information is kind of a massive deal to humanity right now.
Let me ask, what does “begging the question” mean to you?
I actually read Old English without much effort, as well as the languages it originated from, particularly Old Norse, French, and Germanic.
Christ man you’re such a liar lmao. GERMANIC ISN’T A LANGUAGE. And certainly not a WRITTEN one. And English didn’t “originate” from French. Old English is unintelligible to Modern English speakers because it’s a completely different language, you are straight up lying through your teeth when you say you can read it fine, much less understand it. 85% of vocabulary in Old English isn’t even present in Modern English. Even more so with Old Norse lmao. French is very clearly unintelligible with English as well. French is literally my second language, so I can very easily tell you that. Why do you feel the need to blatantly lie about being able to understand other languages, including ficticious ones?
Degradation of language: misuse of language due to lack of education, erudition, or inclination. I can forgive some misinterpretation and adaptation, but that’s my issue. “Extro” does not make sense, unless someone got it wrong that one time and then spread it around until everyone was saying it wrong. That pisses me off, not to mention it makes me question Phyllis’s judgment on Jung’s corpus of work as a whole, she clearly didn’t read much of it.
That entire take is just silly. “Language degratation” is a lie sold to you by shitty middle school English Language Arts teachers.
“All living languages are continually undergoing change. Some commentators use derogatory labels such as “corruption” to suggest that language change constitutes a degradation in the quality of a language, especially when the change originates from human error or is a prescriptively discouraged usage. Modern linguistics rejects this concept, since from a scientific point of view such innovations cannot be judged in terms of good or bad. John Lyons notes that “any standard of evaluation applied to language-change must be based upon a recognition of the various functions a language ‘is called upon’ to fulfil in the society which uses it”.”
Again, your stance is seen as completely stupid in the realm of actual linguistics science.
There is a difference between a language evolving in response to changes in the environment or the human condition, and a language degrading into “barbar” because nobody bothered to learn how to speak, and thereby write, correctly. I believe that there are no 1:1 transmutations of words in such a manner which wouldn’t remove some amount of information, and the degradation of information is kind of a massive deal to humanity right now.
There isn’t a difference. How do you think sound change and many other forms of language change occur without this ““degradation””? Do you think that the transitions between languages just happen because God willed it and everyone just accepted it? No, people back then complained about language change in the same exact way that you are now. You are speaking a “bastardized” form of language by your own logic. Every word you speak is completely different from the “educated” proscribed speak of before. Almost none of the words you’re saying are being used in their ““original”” sense.
Let me ask, what does “begging the question” mean to you?
According to your anti-scientific logic, it should mean to approach a question and start begging to it.
I want to ask you again, do you think AAVE, Scottish English, and all other large dialect groups of English are incorrect? Do you think you’re better at linguistics than a majority of professional linguists?
Christ man you’re such a liar lmao. GERMANIC ISN’T A LANGUAGE. And certainly not a WRITTEN one. And English didn’t “originate” from French. Old English is unintelligible to Modern English speakers because it’s a completely different language, you are straight up lying through your teeth when you say you can read it fine, much less understand it. 85% of vocabulary in Old English isn’t even present in Modern English. Even more so with Old Norse lmao. French is very clearly unintelligible with English as well. French is literally my second language, so I can very easily tell you that. Why do you feel the need to blatantly lie about being able to understand other languages, including ficticious ones?
I’m sorry but this is lazy. I missed the quotes, as in ‘Germanic’, denoting exactly the thing that you said- it’s a multitude of languages and dialects and ursprungs or herkünfte. Once you understand a lot of languages, a lot of languages become quite understandable.
You know, of course the story, as the Normans, who would become the ruling dynasty thenceforth until present day, were Norsemen right? Not “Norwegian” (although actual Norwegians too, this was of course before nationstates were a thing)(thing, by the way, is Old Norse for, well, “Thing”. It is what they would call a Råd, or Råth, or in German “Rat”, perhaps in France it would be ‘le tribunal’ or something gay like that- a public and intermittently recurring assembly before which one would lay various legal matters, in to what amounted to jurisprudence at the time in circa AD 800 (although in fact ridiculously much older but I digress) like who stole whom’s cow or who raped and pillaged whom’s village et cetera), but Norsemen, or Nordmen, or Northmen, or plain and simple “Vikings”, were the de facto rulers of the land at the time, not whatever the French were, apart from being murdered a lot by pillage massacres.
The Føroyar islands north of England (well technically the UK/Scotland but whatever)(technically technically an autonomous and self-governing entity under the control of the state of Denmark, I felt like you would have mnjehhed that one if I didn’t explain it) have spoken their version of Old Norse mixed with local dialects and natural, organic evolution of whatever Celtic remnants remained from pre-glacial times. I can read that out of the box, because it is so ridiculously similar to modern Scandinavian languages. But this has derailed to the point I don’t know what I am schooling you on anymore.
That entire take is just silly. “Language degratation” is a lie sold to you by shitty middle school English Language Arts teachers.
By who? This is very much my 100% own opinion on the matter, I assure you. Fuck arts teachers, art is useless.
“All living languages are continually undergoing change. Some commentators use derogatory labels such as “corruption” to suggest that language change constitutes a degradation in the quality of a language, especially when the change originates from human error or is a prescriptively discouraged usage. Modern linguistics rejects this concept, since from a scientific point of view such innovations cannot be judged in terms of good or bad. John Lyons notes that “any standard of evaluation applied to language-change must be based upon a recognition of the various functions a language ‘is called upon’ to fulfil in the society which uses it”.”
Nice, but I’m more a Chomsky kind of guy. I was going to get into Derrida, but I will NOT deal with another headache right now.
Again, your stance is seen as completely stupid in the realm of actual linguistics science.
Well, in the realm of real life, you’re completely stupid!
There isn’t a difference. How do you think sound change and many other forms of language change occur without this ““degradation””? Do you think that the transitions between languages just happen because God willed it and everyone just accepted it? No, people back then complained about language change in the same exact way that you are now. You are speaking a “bastardized” form of language by your own logic. Every word you speak is completely different from the “educated” proscribed speak of before. Almost none of the words you’re saying are being used in their ““original”” sense.
If I change the course of a stream because I want it to flow in another direction, will it flow in the same direction if I simply just threw rocks at it?
And I will have you know that the extent to which I speak a bastardized form of language then that is because I am a bastard, coming from a long and illustrious line of bastards. Hey that’s a French word! But of course they would invent that, you really need words for things you see everyday.
According to your anti-scientific logic, it should mean to approach a question and start begging to it.
Antiscientific logic! 😘🤏
So you think that whatever things sound like, that’s what they mean? Words are all a guesswork that starts anew every time we speak to one another? I would presume some more structure to language than that.
Surely you understand what I mean by that? It’s only natural evolution of language.
I want to ask you again, do you think AAVE, Scottish English, and all other large dialect groups of English are incorrect? Do you think you’re better at linguistics than a majority of professional linguists?
I would love to debate you on this, but I’m literally (literally literally) in the process of composing my book on this subject, which I did out of a need to be able to point to it as a source of reference, because it takes too long explaining my position every time it comes up, and the time I would spend on discussing it with you would take time away from that effort, not that that is how I would spend that time, because that time is better spent on hookers and cocaine, and constitutes a thoroughly self-defeating proposition.
I mean all of the above tongue in cheek and with good sportsmanship just fighting you with words, no harm meant, nothing personal, you loveable French bastard. :) <3
That’s why I wrote it in quotes. ‘Germanic’, and you can fuck off now if you want. Extrovert… lol
Edit: “actual linguistics science” 💀
Here’s something topical, why don’t you read that and get back to me when you finish high school:
Gattir allar,
aþr gangi fram,
vm scoðaz scyli,
vm scygnaz scyli;
þviat ouist er at vita,
hvar ovinir sitia
a fleti fyr.
Egredit: That was a weird flex, I’ll compose myself and write you a proper answer instead because I’m a bit cunty like this and I should really stop belittling people’s intelligence, they are also people in a way.
It’s “extra”, not “extro”. They’re “extra-terrestrials”, not “extro-terrestrials”. Extro is not a latin word, extra is.
If you’re talking of extrovert then you’re wrong, extrovert is a correct spelling of the word.
No, extravert is the correct psychological nomenclature. Extraversion. Extroversion was not a thing until everyone got it wrong and it had to be shoved into dictionaries. Doesn’t change a thing, “extro” is not a word. “Intro” on the other hand, is. As in “introvert”.
What, do mutants have extro-sensory perception now, too? Is there extroneous information? Extrovehicular? Extrovagance? Extrovaganza?
“Extraversion” is correct.
Sorry bud, it’s a word exactly because “everyone got it wrong and it had to be shoved into dictionaries”. Languages and the words they contain aren’t static, they evolve over time based on how people use them.
No no, language as it existed at the time I learned it is the FOREVER AND ONLY CORRECT WAY. -OP, probably.
Theyre like the linguistic version of religious nutjobs. Semantics dont matter, they just want you to live your life according to a stern set of rules with no flexibility. Submit or burn in hell.
In the 90s there was an explosion of people desperate to “correct” every usage of the word ‘irony.’
Nevermind that one of the definitions is just an “incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs.”
Any outcome that’s different from what you expected meets the definition of ‘ironic.’ That’s all you need.
You probably shouldn’t expect clear weather just because it’s your wedding day. But if you do, and it rains, it’s fuckin ironic.
But to this day, fools fall all over themselves to chirp up anytime Alanis Morisette comes on the radio.
The allure of the appearance of superiority is strong. We’re all vulnerable to it, or most of us.
A quick search on Google scholar for “extravert” and “extrovert” both yield results with hundreds of citations so I think both are clearly acceptable.
Oof, swing and a miss.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extrovert
Oof, shove a bat up your ass! Do governments perform extrojudicial killings? Do we extrodite prisoners, and extropolate data, too?
Extra means “without” or “outside”. Extro has no definition, because it’s not a word. It is in opposition to “intro” which is also, GASP, a latin word, meaning “within”, or “inside”. How is this hard to understand? God I hate throngs of people being wrong at the same time.
“Extrovert” was introduced BECAUSE uneducated people used the wrong word so much they had to.
Or English comes from a broad range of roots, not just Latin, and you have a hard time admitting when you were wrong!
Not to mention you already conceded that it’s the current correct form of the word, and if you think language doesn’t change over time due to usage then you’re doubly ignorant.
It gives me so much joy seeing a Lemmy thread collectively shit on a completely bad take on linguistics
Boy, wait til you learn about literally every word in the English language (another example of a word changing due to use)
Jung used “extra” and “intro”, case closed. Latin for “turning outside” and “turning inside”.
…though Jung also didn’t mean extraversion as synonymous with “sociable” or introversion with “needs to refill their tank” or whatnot, but “cognition primarily concerned with the object as opposed to the subject or the other way around”.
It’s a Germanic word, not a Latin word. It’s based on the German word extravert but it is absolutely spelled extrovert in English since about 1918.
Jung was Swiss that doesn’t make extravert any less Latin. German would be “auswärts gerichtet” vs. “einwärts gerichtet”.
i will pee your pants
alright then buddy
I’M GOING TO SHIT YOURSELF
extravert is reserved for Tony Hawk and the likes, like the guy who did a 1440 on the super ramp.
It’s an Albany expression.
Well Seymour, you are an odd fellow. Although I must say, you extro a good vert
That’s what I have been saying all along!
(Excepting extra-verted people) There isn’t anywhere that I see an “extro” that should be an “extra”. Any chance you could point it out?
I am on a crusade since about twenty years about this, and the war, well, it’s not going well…
because you’re wrong, lol, prescriptivism is just anti-linguistics. linguistics is desctiptive and based on usage
And the feeling of love is “just a bunch of chemical interactions” too, right?
Edit: Oh, and by the way
See, that’s not “lankuake cheinkcsh”, that’s degradation of language because Phyllis got it wrong, and now everyone is.
“degradation of language” oh boy you’d hate to see how different English was 1000 years ago. Is modern English just a degradation of Anglo-Saxon? Or do we go even further back and say that all Indo-European languages are just degradations of PIE? You know that a large portion of the words that you use on a regular basis come from the exact process you describe right now, right? When exactly does normal language change become “degradation of lamguage”, is it just when you don’t like it?
Do you think that you know more about linguistics than every modern accredited linguist, to say that a certain type of language change in certain scenarios is “incorrect”? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogical_change
Maybe you should solve this worksheet to get a feel lol. https://homepage.rub.de/silke.hoeche/Aspects of Language Change/Analogy and morphological change.htm
Linguistics is first and foremost a science, which means you don’t look at what occurs in reality and call it “wrong”. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive, and you look silly to a majority of linguists if you act like a word like “extrovert” is wrong, ESPECIALLY when it’s standard usage.
You probably think that AAVE is just “bastardized English” or that Scottish people speak wrong English.
I actually read Old English without much effort, as well as the languages it originated from, particularly Old Norse, French, and Germanic.
Degradation of language: misuse of language due to lack of education, erudition, or inclination. I can forgive some misinterpretation and adaptation, but that’s my issue. “Extro” does not make sense, unless someone got it wrong that one time and then spread it around until everyone was saying it wrong. That pisses me off, not to mention it makes me question Phyllis’s judgment on Jung’s corpus of work as a whole, she clearly didn’t read much of it.
There is a difference between a language evolving in response to changes in the environment or the human condition, and a language degrading into “barbar” because nobody bothered to learn how to speak, and thereby write, correctly. I believe that there are no 1:1 transmutations of words in such a manner which wouldn’t remove some amount of information, and the degradation of information is kind of a massive deal to humanity right now.
Let me ask, what does “begging the question” mean to you?
Christ man you’re such a liar lmao. GERMANIC ISN’T A LANGUAGE. And certainly not a WRITTEN one. And English didn’t “originate” from French. Old English is unintelligible to Modern English speakers because it’s a completely different language, you are straight up lying through your teeth when you say you can read it fine, much less understand it. 85% of vocabulary in Old English isn’t even present in Modern English. Even more so with Old Norse lmao. French is very clearly unintelligible with English as well. French is literally my second language, so I can very easily tell you that. Why do you feel the need to blatantly lie about being able to understand other languages, including ficticious ones?
That entire take is just silly. “Language degratation” is a lie sold to you by shitty middle school English Language Arts teachers.
“All living languages are continually undergoing change. Some commentators use derogatory labels such as “corruption” to suggest that language change constitutes a degradation in the quality of a language, especially when the change originates from human error or is a prescriptively discouraged usage. Modern linguistics rejects this concept, since from a scientific point of view such innovations cannot be judged in terms of good or bad. John Lyons notes that “any standard of evaluation applied to language-change must be based upon a recognition of the various functions a language ‘is called upon’ to fulfil in the society which uses it”.”
Again, your stance is seen as completely stupid in the realm of actual linguistics science.
There isn’t a difference. How do you think sound change and many other forms of language change occur without this ““degradation””? Do you think that the transitions between languages just happen because God willed it and everyone just accepted it? No, people back then complained about language change in the same exact way that you are now. You are speaking a “bastardized” form of language by your own logic. Every word you speak is completely different from the “educated” proscribed speak of before. Almost none of the words you’re saying are being used in their ““original”” sense.
According to your anti-scientific logic, it should mean to approach a question and start begging to it.
I want to ask you again, do you think AAVE, Scottish English, and all other large dialect groups of English are incorrect? Do you think you’re better at linguistics than a majority of professional linguists?
I’m sorry but this is lazy. I missed the quotes, as in ‘Germanic’, denoting exactly the thing that you said- it’s a multitude of languages and dialects and ursprungs or herkünfte. Once you understand a lot of languages, a lot of languages become quite understandable.
English, hahaha, I’m sorry to offend your nationalistic sensibilities, but this is the Bayeux Tapestry: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Bayeux_Tapestry
You know, of course the story, as the Normans, who would become the ruling dynasty thenceforth until present day, were Norsemen right? Not “Norwegian” (although actual Norwegians too, this was of course before nationstates were a thing)(thing, by the way, is Old Norse for, well, “Thing”. It is what they would call a Råd, or Råth, or in German “Rat”, perhaps in France it would be ‘le tribunal’ or something gay like that- a public and intermittently recurring assembly before which one would lay various legal matters, in to what amounted to jurisprudence at the time in circa AD 800 (although in fact ridiculously much older but I digress) like who stole whom’s cow or who raped and pillaged whom’s village et cetera), but Norsemen, or Nordmen, or Northmen, or plain and simple “Vikings”, were the de facto rulers of the land at the time, not whatever the French were, apart from being murdered a lot by pillage massacres.
The Føroyar islands north of England (well technically the UK/Scotland but whatever)(technically technically an autonomous and self-governing entity under the control of the state of Denmark, I felt like you would have mnjehhed that one if I didn’t explain it) have spoken their version of Old Norse mixed with local dialects and natural, organic evolution of whatever Celtic remnants remained from pre-glacial times. I can read that out of the box, because it is so ridiculously similar to modern Scandinavian languages. But this has derailed to the point I don’t know what I am schooling you on anymore.
By who? This is very much my 100% own opinion on the matter, I assure you. Fuck arts teachers, art is useless.
Nice, but I’m more a Chomsky kind of guy. I was going to get into Derrida, but I will NOT deal with another headache right now.
Well, in the realm of real life, you’re completely stupid!
If I change the course of a stream because I want it to flow in another direction, will it flow in the same direction if I simply just threw rocks at it?
And I will have you know that the extent to which I speak a bastardized form of language then that is because I am a bastard, coming from a long and illustrious line of bastards. Hey that’s a French word! But of course they would invent that, you really need words for things you see everyday.
Antiscientific logic! 😘🤏
So you think that whatever things sound like, that’s what they mean? Words are all a guesswork that starts anew every time we speak to one another? I would presume some more structure to language than that.
Also consider this:
“BARBARBARBARBARBARBARBARBARBARBARBARBARBARBARBAR”.
Surely you understand what I mean by that? It’s only natural evolution of language.
I would love to debate you on this, but I’m literally (literally literally) in the process of composing my book on this subject, which I did out of a need to be able to point to it as a source of reference, because it takes too long explaining my position every time it comes up, and the time I would spend on discussing it with you would take time away from that effort, not that that is how I would spend that time, because that time is better spent on hookers and cocaine, and constitutes a thoroughly self-defeating proposition.
I mean all of the above tongue in cheek and with good sportsmanship just fighting you with words, no harm meant, nothing personal, you loveable French bastard. :) <3
That’s why I wrote it in quotes. ‘Germanic’, and you can fuck off now if you want. Extrovert… lol
Edit: “actual linguistics science” 💀
Here’s something topical, why don’t you read that and get back to me when you finish high school:
Gattir allar, aþr gangi fram, vm scoðaz scyli, vm scygnaz scyli; þviat ouist er at vita, hvar ovinir sitia a fleti fyr.
Egredit: That was a weird flex, I’ll compose myself and write you a proper answer instead because I’m a bit cunty like this and I should really stop belittling people’s intelligence, they are also people in a way.
Good luck storming the Grammary!
Deus Vult.
You ever hear of the lone Japanese soldiers scattered across islands that never got the news WW2 was over?
That’s my uncle!
Here, I’ll brew you a nice expresso and you can tell me about it.
Now you’re really rustling my jimjims.
What others have already said, but just know that I forgive you for thinking that extroverts are extra 😝