Biden’s numbers among young voters have slid during his presidency from the high margins that helped him beat Trump. Several former supporters explain why.
What about what’s in store for me if Trump loses? The rightwing still control the Supreme Court and can still win a majority in Congress and will still control my state on all three levels of government. Biden isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. That would violate the norms!
Meanwhile, he’s supporting an ongoing genocide!
If I wanted to cast a vote that would matter in 2024 I’d cast a 9mm ballot with my temple as the ballot box.
Trump would gladly send troops over to assist in the genocide. Biden is doing too little to address it and being too supportive of it. There’s a massive difference. It’s going to happen regardless of which of them wins. It will be better under Biden 100%. To claim otherwise would be feigning accelerationism. Hoping to get millions more killed so that something might change here at home.
If we’re at the point where we’re playing an ethics logic puzzle between different levels of genocide then it’s time to do something different!
If you vote for Biden, you are voting for genocide. You are endorsing children being blown apart and buried under rubble. You are endorsing doctors and nurses and journalists being sniped and bombed. You are endorsing the use of starvation as a weapon. You are sending a message to the government that you want genocide and you will support more genocide, and that’s exactly what you’ll get under Biden.
America is an abomination. At this point you don’t even get to vote for the lesser of two evils. You just vote for different branding.
Cringing as I quote a fictitious asshole who has a point. “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”
Your criticisms are hollow. ML kvetching over Biden’s shit take. Calling him a monster for saying the wrong thing over something he really couldn’t impact much personally. While hand waving away the millions oppressed and slaughtered by ML governments. It’s hypocritical.
There’s almost no nation in the world that isn’t an abomination. Especially the biggest ones. China, India, Russia and yes the US are all abominations.
Everyone needs better. And yeah Biden is definitely flawed. Despite being one of the best presidents the US has had in nearly 40 years. Ironically you of all people should appreciate that he singularly is one of the biggest reasons we have marriage equality. His administrations NLRB decisions truly a sea change. Pushed to invest in national infrastructure that everyone needs in a scale not really seen since the new deal. But yeah, old man tone deaf, gotta go.
It’s honestly too late right now to start pushing for better this cycle. They are seriously ready to put in place a fascist dictator. I know ML are 100% on board with dictators. But I think you would be concerned by the fascism part. Right now we need to survive and hold on to any type of democracy or republic we can. After 2024 we can focus on better younger Democrat candidates for 2028. But we have to remember good change comes incrementally and slowly with compromise.
And don’t get me wrong. I’m open to any ideas for positive change you have that don’t involve magical thinking. Such as what if everyone did the thing that everyone doesn’t do. Or the typical conflict resolution ML employ. You get a gulag and you get a gulag disappearing and re-education for you and for you as well! Yadda yadda.
Marxist Leninist. Most of those we mistakenly call Communist simply because Lenin and co chose it as the name for their authoritarian party. They realistically reject a lot of the basis of communism. And similarly, Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx. Misinterpreting the intellectual philosophical statement of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Something which on it’s face is contradictory and oxymoronic. As being a literal commandment to them. From a man who knew all too well the problems of actual dictatorial power and had spent most of his life fleeing from country to country trying to avoid it. Marxist Leninist are to Marxism what evangelicals today are to Christianity.
I can’t think right now of the actual country the .ML domain refers to. But Lemmy.ML and Lemmygrad.ML both use it as a reference to that ideology.
Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx.
Because Marx is a racist antisemite whose writing is dripping with speciesism. He was right about one thing and that was his economics, I severely distrust anyone who listens to him for anything other than that, especially not when there’s a treasure trove of other writings.
Really if they called themselves what they are (Scientific Socialists) they would be way more popular among the average American. The reason they don’t is because of the nostalgia of MLs turning one of the biggest shithole countries into a global superpower overnight.
No worries. There are a lot who are who don’t share the ideology. It’s one of the oldest servers after all. And for a long time was also one of the more default servers. The original and still main coders IIRC behind Lemmy also share the ideology. Starting the project after largely being run off of reddit.
And if you don’t vote for Biden, then you are voting for children in cages and people being pushed under buoys in rivers as they try to escape whatever hellhole they left.
LOL you’re delusional. Biden is provided typical support for the country in the way of supplies and money. Trump would send the actual US military over.
“What about what’s in store for me if Hitler loses? The Nazis still control Brest, Lwow, and Kaunas, and Churchill isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. Meanwhile, he’s an open racist who supports atrocities in the colonies.”
It’s a rational decision. Voting against Biden (and discouraging people about Biden online constantly) helps get Trump elected, which means you’re voting for 2 genocides since Trump is clearly planning to greatly harm Central and Southern Americans in the US.
Trump is clearly planning to greatly harm Central and Southern Americans in the US
And Palestinians (he was the one that moved the embassy to Jerusalem, remember)
And US journalists who report on corruption in Saudi Arabia
And Ukrainians
And anyone in government who won’t support his crimes
And ordinary-person election workers who won’t support his crimes
And via his supporters, literally anyone in or out of government who actively opposes his crimes, with a pretty broad definition of “opposes”
And women who have medical problems during a pregnancy
And I’m sure lots of other people who don’t spring to mind right at the moment. But surely that should be enough of a list. 2 Gaza-size genocides as the final outcome of a second Trump term would mean we got very very lucky.
Yes, I do understand your argument. You don’t need to repeat it. I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.
I know two separate people whose life situations changed dramatically because of Obama-era immigration policies. If they were hostile to Obama because of drone strikes and warrantless wiretapping, I’d point out to them that yes, fair enough, but they could also be deported right now from a Bush or Romney America if things had gone a little differently. And Trump is much, much worse than Bush or Romney. He’s dangerous to people who aren’t even queer or communist.
I think you’re being similarly foolish and contrarian about it. But of course you’re free to think whatever you want, I won’t keep going back and forth with you about it.
Are you under the impression that Trump doesn’t support this type of genocide in a much bigger way than Biden? Or that it’s uncertain whether life will be better for you under Biden than under a second Trump term? If so, I think we’ve hit the root of our disagreement.
Trump already ran concentration camps within the United States during his first term, and he’s already pledged to root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country.
That’s you. He means you. And he’s literally dead serious about it, and he and his cohort have a detailed plan for how to get it done. I’m not by any means saying that you should vote for Biden only for your own safety as some sort of selfish gesture and betray all these people who would somehow be safer under Trump. I’m saying that not voting for Biden endangers quite a lot of people’s safety, inside and outside the US, but yes, also very specifically yours.
Yup. Do you think I’m selfish enough to vote for genocide just because Biden’s genocide doesn’t target people like me?
I will not vote for genocide. This is not some radical stance, it’s the bare fucking minimum. And you know what? My hope is, by pressuring Biden’s campaign on this issue, Biden could reconsider his stance on Gaza to get reelected. That’s how politics works!
And if he refuses to reconsider, even at the cost of his own reelection, then I have zero confidence he’d protect me in his next four years anyway. Why should he? When my state starts rounding up people on HRT into conversion therapy concentration camps, Biden can do literally nothing about it and you’ll still vote for his successor anyway because she’s the lesser evil.
I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.
And your argument seems to be that you shouldn’t participate unless at least one truly perfect candidate is available. But not participating means that the worse of the two evils wins. So you’re, unironically, hostile to your own individual safety.
What about what’s in store for me if Trump loses? The rightwing still control the Supreme Court and can still win a majority in Congress and will still control my state on all three levels of government. Biden isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. That would violate the norms!
Meanwhile, he’s supporting an ongoing genocide!
If I wanted to cast a vote that would matter in 2024 I’d cast a 9mm ballot with my temple as the ballot box.
Trump would gladly send troops over to assist in the genocide. Biden is doing too little to address it and being too supportive of it. There’s a massive difference. It’s going to happen regardless of which of them wins. It will be better under Biden 100%. To claim otherwise would be feigning accelerationism. Hoping to get millions more killed so that something might change here at home.
If we’re at the point where we’re playing an ethics logic puzzle between different levels of genocide then it’s time to do something different!
If you vote for Biden, you are voting for genocide. You are endorsing children being blown apart and buried under rubble. You are endorsing doctors and nurses and journalists being sniped and bombed. You are endorsing the use of starvation as a weapon. You are sending a message to the government that you want genocide and you will support more genocide, and that’s exactly what you’ll get under Biden.
America is an abomination. At this point you don’t even get to vote for the lesser of two evils. You just vote for different branding.
Always has been.
Functioning as designed.
Cringing as I quote a fictitious asshole who has a point. “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”
Your criticisms are hollow. ML kvetching over Biden’s shit take. Calling him a monster for saying the wrong thing over something he really couldn’t impact much personally. While hand waving away the millions oppressed and slaughtered by ML governments. It’s hypocritical.
There’s almost no nation in the world that isn’t an abomination. Especially the biggest ones. China, India, Russia and yes the US are all abominations.
Everyone needs better. And yeah Biden is definitely flawed. Despite being one of the best presidents the US has had in nearly 40 years. Ironically you of all people should appreciate that he singularly is one of the biggest reasons we have marriage equality. His administrations NLRB decisions truly a sea change. Pushed to invest in national infrastructure that everyone needs in a scale not really seen since the new deal. But yeah, old man tone deaf, gotta go.
It’s honestly too late right now to start pushing for better this cycle. They are seriously ready to put in place a fascist dictator. I know ML are 100% on board with dictators. But I think you would be concerned by the fascism part. Right now we need to survive and hold on to any type of democracy or republic we can. After 2024 we can focus on better younger Democrat candidates for 2028. But we have to remember good change comes incrementally and slowly with compromise.
And don’t get me wrong. I’m open to any ideas for positive change you have that don’t involve magical thinking. Such as what if everyone did the thing that everyone doesn’t do. Or the typical conflict resolution ML employ. You get a gulag and you get a gulag disappearing and re-education for you and for you as well! Yadda yadda.
Liked your comment. What is “ML”, though?
Marxist Leninist. Most of those we mistakenly call Communist simply because Lenin and co chose it as the name for their authoritarian party. They realistically reject a lot of the basis of communism. And similarly, Marxist leninists reject a good chunk of the philosophy of Karl Marx. Misinterpreting the intellectual philosophical statement of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Something which on it’s face is contradictory and oxymoronic. As being a literal commandment to them. From a man who knew all too well the problems of actual dictatorial power and had spent most of his life fleeing from country to country trying to avoid it. Marxist Leninist are to Marxism what evangelicals today are to Christianity.
I can’t think right now of the actual country the .ML domain refers to. But Lemmy.ML and Lemmygrad.ML both use it as a reference to that ideology.
Because Marx is a racist antisemite whose writing is dripping with speciesism. He was right about one thing and that was his economics, I severely distrust anyone who listens to him for anything other than that, especially not when there’s a treasure trove of other writings.
Really if they called themselves what they are (Scientific Socialists) they would be way more popular among the average American. The reason they don’t is because of the nostalgia of MLs turning one of the biggest shithole countries into a global superpower overnight.
OH lol I am actually on the ML lemmy too and didn’t realize what it was. Thanks for the education.
No worries. There are a lot who are who don’t share the ideology. It’s one of the oldest servers after all. And for a long time was also one of the more default servers. The original and still main coders IIRC behind Lemmy also share the ideology. Starting the project after largely being run off of reddit.
I’m all about it, but it also explains why I have seen so many references.
And if you don’t vote for Biden, then you are voting for children in cages and people being pushed under buoys in rivers as they try to escape whatever hellhole they left.
deleted by creator
I want to cast a 9mm ballot every single time there’s an election and all the “left” party wants you to do is vote in their fascist.
LOL you’re delusional. Biden is provided typical support for the country in the way of supplies and money. Trump would send the actual US military over.
Now tell me, which is worse?
“What about what’s in store for me if Hitler loses? The Nazis still control Brest, Lwow, and Kaunas, and Churchill isn’t protecting me from any of that shit. Meanwhile, he’s an open racist who supports atrocities in the colonies.”
Like I say: Good luck.
Biden is supporting genocide! No matter who I vote for, Hitler wins.
This isn’t fascism vs social democracy. This is Hitler Lite vs Hitler Delux.
Such a clueless take when Trump is calling for genocide IN THE US.
I will not vote for the lesser of two genocides.
You sound like someone who is hungry but won’t take my food because they want better food.
More accurately, someone who doesn’t want other hungry people (in addition to herself) to have any food because she wants better food.
I like that, the double whammy of selfishness.
Why the fuck not?
When you vote for the lesser of two genocides, you are voting for genocide. You can’t escape that.
It’s a rational decision. Voting against Biden (and discouraging people about Biden online constantly) helps get Trump elected, which means you’re voting for 2 genocides since Trump is clearly planning to greatly harm Central and Southern Americans in the US.
And Palestinians (he was the one that moved the embassy to Jerusalem, remember)
And US journalists who report on corruption in Saudi Arabia
And Ukrainians
And anyone in government who won’t support his crimes
And ordinary-person election workers who won’t support his crimes
And via his supporters, literally anyone in or out of government who actively opposes his crimes, with a pretty broad definition of “opposes”
And women who have medical problems during a pregnancy
And I’m sure lots of other people who don’t spring to mind right at the moment. But surely that should be enough of a list. 2 Gaza-size genocides as the final outcome of a second Trump term would mean we got very very lucky.
Yes, I do understand your argument. You don’t need to repeat it. I’m saying that advancing that argument is actively hostile to your own individual safety.
I know two separate people whose life situations changed dramatically because of Obama-era immigration policies. If they were hostile to Obama because of drone strikes and warrantless wiretapping, I’d point out to them that yes, fair enough, but they could also be deported right now from a Bush or Romney America if things had gone a little differently. And Trump is much, much worse than Bush or Romney. He’s dangerous to people who aren’t even queer or communist.
I think you’re being similarly foolish and contrarian about it. But of course you’re free to think whatever you want, I won’t keep going back and forth with you about it.
Liberals: “You need to vote for Biden or Trump will kill all the gay communists”
Gay communists: “Don’t vote for genocide Joe, it’s the minimum I expect of you”
Liberals: “I don’t care. If Biden loses I’m not going to be able to go back to brunch”
I won’t vote for genocide just to protect myself.
At some point you have to find something that you value more than your own individual safety.
Ah yes, all those people who will be safer under a Trump presidency. I forgot about them. How careless of me.
The genocide in Gaza is going to continue regardless of which candidate wins. I understand that.
But if I vote for Biden, I am voting for genocide. I won’t do that just because it might be personally better for me if Biden wins.
(might be personally better for me - who fucking knows what the Supreme Court might decide in the next 4 years)
Are you under the impression that Trump doesn’t support this type of genocide in a much bigger way than Biden? Or that it’s uncertain whether life will be better for you under Biden than under a second Trump term? If so, I think we’ve hit the root of our disagreement.
Trump already ran concentration camps within the United States during his first term, and he’s already pledged to root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country.
That’s you. He means you. And he’s literally dead serious about it, and he and his cohort have a detailed plan for how to get it done. I’m not by any means saying that you should vote for Biden only for your own safety as some sort of selfish gesture and betray all these people who would somehow be safer under Trump. I’m saying that not voting for Biden endangers quite a lot of people’s safety, inside and outside the US, but yes, also very specifically yours.
Yes, and Biden is still running those concentration camps! The number of immigrants jailed by ICE has increased 70 percent since the start of the Biden administration. Nothing fundamentally changed, just like he promised.
Yup. Do you think I’m selfish enough to vote for genocide just because Biden’s genocide doesn’t target people like me?
I will not vote for genocide. This is not some radical stance, it’s the bare fucking minimum. And you know what? My hope is, by pressuring Biden’s campaign on this issue, Biden could reconsider his stance on Gaza to get reelected. That’s how politics works!
And if he refuses to reconsider, even at the cost of his own reelection, then I have zero confidence he’d protect me in his next four years anyway. Why should he? When my state starts rounding up people on HRT into conversion therapy concentration camps, Biden can do literally nothing about it and you’ll still vote for his successor anyway because she’s the lesser evil.
And your argument seems to be that you shouldn’t participate unless at least one truly perfect candidate is available. But not participating means that the worse of the two evils wins. So you’re, unironically, hostile to your own individual safety.
Nope, my argument is the reverse of that. I’m saying we should vote for Biden if the only other possible outcome is Trump.