This is the most obtuse statement you could possibly make for your argument.
There are many humans on this planet. If a majority of these humans consumes animal products as they do today this means massive greenhouse gases. If you see a way to strike out the emmissions without striking out production and consumption - please enlighten me.
These are mutually exclusive statements.
They aren’t.
If you want to lower emmissions from animal agriculture, you have to reduce animal agriculture. As an intermediate step you may have some options to switch to smaller animals such as insects instead of larger animals. But as acceptance of insect food is much lower than vegan food, I see little sense in pursuing that strategy.
I don’t think bad of people for being omnivores. That’s the traditional way how humans lived forever. People are used to consume animal products and it’s hard to break with habits. Not everyone has the mental capacity to do so, people have other priorities in life. That’s fine for me.
But if someone else is running around saying ‘consuming animal products is not problematic, it’s all about the rich!’ then that’s incorrect from my perspective and I want to point that out.
Yet still unwilling to blame the groups who literally destroy the world
I literally wrote in my initial post that ‘there are many good reasons to blame rich people’. The fact that many rich people have a negative impact on our society and planet, …
does not mean that individual consumers are completely off the hook in all kinds of moral questions.
that everything any rich person says is automatically wrong
Especially in a topic like veganism I can’t see an intrinsic motivation of ‘the rich elite’ to force animal products on the people. You can be rich by selling meat or you can be rich by selling tofu. Selling vegan alternatives at a large scale to the masses would probably even lead to higher profits as the production is cheaper.
allows you to live guilt free
Veganism isn’t about being morally inferior. A moral lifestyle has numerous aspects, veganism is just one aspect. Being a good person is not limited to veganism or trying to protect the environment in general. It’s not about rating people against each other. Yet, it’s absolutely fair to say from my perspective that veganism can do a lot of good for the world: reduce CO2 and methane emmissions, lower the risk of famines, reduce animal harm, reduce deforestation and land use, lower the risk of pandemics and resistent germs, get rid of the horrible working conditions for factory workers in the animal industry and many more.
All humans just going vegan at once is completely delusional. But every single person helps, even if it’s just lowering the consumption a bit helps.
And my point is that it is absolutely in the power of each individual to take these small steps. If you want it, no rich person can hinder you from that.
you are incapable of making reasonable arguments
Major parts of your post are personally attacking and insulting me. That’s not necessarily what I’d consider a healthy debate. But unfortunately it seems to be a very emotional topic I guess.
I apologize, I was being an asshole. I disagree with a majority of your arguments, but i was very inconsiderate in presenting my own. I genuinely hope I didn’t ruin your day with my attitude
-I’m not personally attacking you, and I’m not insulting you. If you are feeling attacked or insulted, then maybe that part of what I’m saying is just ringing truer than you like.
-People eating animal products doesn’t cause greenhouse gasses any more than people eating high protein vegan diets. The greenhouse gasses are from people mass producing the animals. Is this something we can agree on?
-You said you weren’t blaming omnivores, but then said that people eating animal products needs to stop. That is literally you blaming the people eating animal products. I didn’t say you were persecuting them, but you are saying they need to stop doing what they’re doing in order to fix the problems, as you see it. Is this also something we can agree on?
-Individual consumer food choices are not your business or your right to judge. If you aren’t having the problems they’re having or living their lives, then that’s good for you, but don’t present yourself as the arbiter of proper food morals. That is not how morals work. it is unethical for you to tell people what morals they should have, especially for their food. This type of behavior is privilege and entitlement personified. Can we also agree on this?
-i never said everything every rich person said is wrong. I said not to trust them or their propaganda. There is plenty of good reason, which you seem to agree with, to not trust them. Am I mistaken on your perspective?
-Do the rich people or the poor people own the means of production for the animal agriculture infrastructure? If it’s the poor people, then i agree with you that they need to make different choices. If it’s the rich people, perhaps you should reconsider who is really at fault for producing the animals that produce the greenhouse gasses. Unless, of course, they are spending their profits from their enterprises rehabilitating the environment that they are capitalizing on to generate their wealth… boy, I thought there was another word for personal gain at the expense of others. Exploitation or something?
-I do agree with you that veganism could do a lot of good for the world. I just disagree that it would be right, proper, or “moral” in all situations. However, exploitation is absolutely unethical in all circumstances. Is this something we both agree on?
-Veganism isn’t about morally superiority, but you are using it that way with your arguments. Just look at how you consider people to be not of the proper “mental capacity” if they don’t make that change. Is this something you mis-stated?
You clearly lack an understanding of the causes and sources of greenhouse gasses.
This^ is the beginning of one of the most privileged, bigoted, ignorant, vapid, dishonest, and ridiculous statements you’ve ever uttered in your life.
and propaganda that people like yourself regurgitate that puts the onus on the poor, and allows you to live guilt free in some ideal fantasy in your own head
You sound like a corporate shill. A capitalist apologist. An entitled individual of privilege who lacks empathy and culture
There are many humans on this planet. If a majority of these humans consumes animal products as they do today this means massive greenhouse gases. If you see a way to strike out the emmissions without striking out production and consumption - please enlighten me.
They aren’t.
If you want to lower emmissions from animal agriculture, you have to reduce animal agriculture. As an intermediate step you may have some options to switch to smaller animals such as insects instead of larger animals. But as acceptance of insect food is much lower than vegan food, I see little sense in pursuing that strategy.
I don’t think bad of people for being omnivores. That’s the traditional way how humans lived forever. People are used to consume animal products and it’s hard to break with habits. Not everyone has the mental capacity to do so, people have other priorities in life. That’s fine for me.
But if someone else is running around saying ‘consuming animal products is not problematic, it’s all about the rich!’ then that’s incorrect from my perspective and I want to point that out.
I literally wrote in my initial post that ‘there are many good reasons to blame rich people’. The fact that many rich people have a negative impact on our society and planet, …
Especially in a topic like veganism I can’t see an intrinsic motivation of ‘the rich elite’ to force animal products on the people. You can be rich by selling meat or you can be rich by selling tofu. Selling vegan alternatives at a large scale to the masses would probably even lead to higher profits as the production is cheaper.
Veganism isn’t about being morally inferior. A moral lifestyle has numerous aspects, veganism is just one aspect. Being a good person is not limited to veganism or trying to protect the environment in general. It’s not about rating people against each other. Yet, it’s absolutely fair to say from my perspective that veganism can do a lot of good for the world: reduce CO2 and methane emmissions, lower the risk of famines, reduce animal harm, reduce deforestation and land use, lower the risk of pandemics and resistent germs, get rid of the horrible working conditions for factory workers in the animal industry and many more.
All humans just going vegan at once is completely delusional. But every single person helps, even if it’s just lowering the consumption a bit helps.
And my point is that it is absolutely in the power of each individual to take these small steps. If you want it, no rich person can hinder you from that.
Major parts of your post are personally attacking and insulting me. That’s not necessarily what I’d consider a healthy debate. But unfortunately it seems to be a very emotional topic I guess.
I apologize, I was being an asshole. I disagree with a majority of your arguments, but i was very inconsiderate in presenting my own. I genuinely hope I didn’t ruin your day with my attitude
-I’m not personally attacking you, and I’m not insulting you. If you are feeling attacked or insulted, then maybe that part of what I’m saying is just ringing truer than you like.
-People eating animal products doesn’t cause greenhouse gasses any more than people eating high protein vegan diets. The greenhouse gasses are from people mass producing the animals. Is this something we can agree on?
-You said you weren’t blaming omnivores, but then said that people eating animal products needs to stop. That is literally you blaming the people eating animal products. I didn’t say you were persecuting them, but you are saying they need to stop doing what they’re doing in order to fix the problems, as you see it. Is this also something we can agree on?
-Individual consumer food choices are not your business or your right to judge. If you aren’t having the problems they’re having or living their lives, then that’s good for you, but don’t present yourself as the arbiter of proper food morals. That is not how morals work. it is unethical for you to tell people what morals they should have, especially for their food. This type of behavior is privilege and entitlement personified. Can we also agree on this?
-i never said everything every rich person said is wrong. I said not to trust them or their propaganda. There is plenty of good reason, which you seem to agree with, to not trust them. Am I mistaken on your perspective?
-Do the rich people or the poor people own the means of production for the animal agriculture infrastructure? If it’s the poor people, then i agree with you that they need to make different choices. If it’s the rich people, perhaps you should reconsider who is really at fault for producing the animals that produce the greenhouse gasses. Unless, of course, they are spending their profits from their enterprises rehabilitating the environment that they are capitalizing on to generate their wealth… boy, I thought there was another word for personal gain at the expense of others. Exploitation or something?
-I do agree with you that veganism could do a lot of good for the world. I just disagree that it would be right, proper, or “moral” in all situations. However, exploitation is absolutely unethical in all circumstances. Is this something we both agree on?
-Veganism isn’t about morally superiority, but you are using it that way with your arguments. Just look at how you consider people to be not of the proper “mental capacity” if they don’t make that change. Is this something you mis-stated?
You are correct, I was being an asshole. I own rbn a genuine apology…