I’m convinced people who post these haven’t actually used apple devices seriously without going into it with their superiority complex. the fluidity and peace of mind not having to find fucking drivers for some shit from 2004 that have long been consumed by time it just plugs in and works. Or the fact that for instance a MacBook comes with everything you need to say decompress a file without downloading winrar or 7zip it’s built in. The apple version of ms office comes with the device. Not to mention the software being specifically written for the hardware means i haven’t had a day ruining crash in so long i can’t remember. Not having God damn ads on my desktop you gotta be kidding me. Text messages on all my devices. My mouse and keyboard on my mac can automatically control my iPad. Sure you can kinda do these things on the bootleg os’s kinda sorta but when it comes out of the box like that and i don’t have to fuck with 20 3rd party apps and ads on everything is 10000% worth it to me.
I am forced to use a MacBook at work and I fricking hate it. The software follows such strange HIGs. Just look at the finder. Why is the default action on a folder/file to RENAME it? If I press enter on a folder I want to enter it, if I press enter on a file I want to open it.
Why does apples keyboard layout with DEde Locale is so utterly strange compared to IBM keyboard layouts?
Why do they not print atleast the second modifier row on the keys?
To use Macintosh’s you really need to think differently.
But yeah the interconnection inside it’s eco system is pretty neat.
Also, why whine about drivers for something from 2004? You, certainly as a apple user, don’t have anything that old anyway. And the option to be able to use stuff from that age by installing a driver is super useful.
Im not Sure what you’re implying with that bit about not having anything that old. Yeah I do and when I plug it in it works immediately no windows bullshit it just works every time.
Why is the default action on a folder/file to RENAME it? If I press enter on a folder I want to enter it, if I press enter on a file I want to open it.
The Mac is mouse-centric. You double click to open anything , you right-click to access other operations.
If you single-click and then start using using the keyboard, it’s a fair bet that you want to rename it.
I’m pretty sure opt-enter will actually open the file if you want to open it… or cmd-O, of course
The Mac is mouse-centric. You double click to open anything , you right-click to access other operations.
Or command+click because up until osx, or even way later than that macOS didnt even had rightclick.
If you single-click and then start using using the keyboard, it’s a fair bet that you want to rename it.
I didn’t single-click on an item. I moved to the item with CURSOR KEYS and then hit enter. Why does the finder half asses this interaction (and moving a folder up) while moving the cursor and selecting/unselecting items is done like on other plattforms?
I’m pretty sure opt-enter will actually open the file if you want to open it… or cmd-O, of course
Or command+click because up until osx, or even way later than that macOS didnt even had rightclick.
The Mac introduced right click with System 8 in 1997. The keyboard equivalent is ctrl-click, by the way - not command click.
Why does the finder half asses this interaction (and moving a folder up) while moving the cursor and selecting/unselecting items is done like on other plattforms?
Not sure what you mean. Holding shift while using the keyboard (or mouse) will let you select multiple contiguous items. Hold cmd to select items dotted about.
Not really, CMD-O for open, together with CMD-C for copy, CMD-V for paste etc were introduced in 1982 with the Apple Lisa.
As I say, Finder is primarily designed to be mouse driven, so most people will be using double-click to open, otherwise CMD-O is your friend.
The good news There is a tiny bit of freeware available called “PresButan” that will let you modify the Finder behaviour match your preferences. You can grab it here: http://briankendall.net/presButan/index.htm
No I am saying that the Finder nearly got everything right in regards to keyboard interacting EXCEPT going up a Folder, entering a folder or executing a folder.
cmd-o is ONLY required on the macOS while other OSses and Systems just require a simple Enter-keystroke. That’s my issue! Needing a Daemon to fix this issue is quite odd to me.
I think the problem is that you are keyboard-centric and the Finder, since its introduction is mouse-centric. Therefore the assumption is that if you have selected a file, whatever you’re going to do to it - ‘Open’ isn’t likely. Afterall, if you were going to open it, you would have double clicked on it, or dragged it on top of an application icon.
You can argue that that’s “bad” if you want - and OK. But the daemon will fix if for you.
Similarly, the mechanisms for going up a folder (and there are many) are mouse-centric.
I agree but the fediverse is built on open source evangelists you aren’t going to get a lot of agreement. I use an iPhone an Apple Watch and AirPods and have a work issued Mac I like them all just fine
Or another person who just can’t let someone who likes apple devices, like them.
The op post is pretty terrible. It’s insultingly in their superior complex. That’s what most extreme “all users who do x” takes are.
The response wasn’t that there is no other way to fulfill this list of things that they like, but that for them, apple devices fulfill this list of things.
I’ve used plenty of OSes. I switch between Linux for our servers, windows on my work computer and my gaming computer, and apples oses on the apple devices I own. I prefer macos to windows any day. That’s my personal preference. You prefer Linux? Good, have fun. Windows? Sure, whatever floats your boats.
I’ve used every os under the sun and refined my opinion about them after giving them an honest go. Linux is my favourite (manjaro atm) but macs being integrated from head to toe is what sets them apart. Windows is a dumpster fire that’s only used because of it’s proliferation in the video game space and even that is changing other than specific software availability i don’t see reason someone should choose windows over Linux in this day and age.
Apart from office pre installed, Linux has all these benefits for free. And even then, many distros have FOSS alternatives pre installed. Not great if you NEED MSOffice for work, but many suites, like OnlyOffice, are fully compatible with MSO formats.
I agree Linux is amazing and I use it daily but the thing that sets macos apart is the integration with the hardware. i wouldn’t for instance make a pc specifically to turn into a hackintosh id just boot manjaro but as a hardware software package macos and m1/2/pro/max are what makes it worth the money for me.
Every windows computer/android phone I’ve ever used has crashed at least once a week if not daily because they’re trying to account for all hardware configurations possible my MacBook and iPhone have crashed maybe 4 times combined in their lifetimes. Having my app im using on my phone preloaded on my iPad and mac ready to go when I pick it up, my mac automatically sensing that I put my iPad next to it and automatically connecting the keyboard and trackpad to it. Being able to run iPhone apps on my mac without emulation. Projecting my iPad or iPhone display to my MacBook. I’m sure theres so much more im missing.
Woah, cool! Completely unrelated, but I just upvoted your comment and it reloaded just that comment to reflect your recent update! Didn’t have that on reddit!
Ah, I also was unaware of this feature. That’s good. I’m terrible at proofreading, and always end up needing to back and correct things after posting. So, if someone’s already typing before i edit, there’s still a chance they’ll see my edit before sending their pedantic correction haha!
Your point is solid, but that level of polish on Apple products is only skin deep. For example, there are several missing features and issues with MacOS that have gone unaddressed for years.
Window edge snapping is incredibly frustrating. Linux desktops and Microsoft Windows have had proper window snapping support for decades.
The app uninstall process is inconsistent, with some apps remaining contained in the .app folder while others spill out all over the system.
The recovery mode process for resetting an Intel-based Mac is incredibly tedious and time consuming.
However, MacOS isn’t the only Apple product with issues.
WatchOS has an inconsistent and difficult to navigate UI. The bubble menu is inconsistent and difficult to navigate, and the list view requires that you sort by alphabetical when a “recently used” sort would be significantly more efficient.
IOS doesn’t allow sideloading apps.
TVOS is filled with ads for Apple’s premium services like AppleTV+
IOS home screen icons cannot have blank space and must instead tile to the top of the screen.
Methods for going back to what was previously onscreen are inconsistent in IOS.
IOS browsers are required to use mobile Safari’s web engine.
However, this isn’t to say that Apple products are bad, simply to remind you that they do have flaws. Based on your wording of “bootleg os’s” I can’t quite tell what your referring to. Windows is the only OS I’m aware of other than MacOS that has heavy advertising, but your phrasing seems to place it in a different category altogether. Although if you are looking for a new OS to try I highly recommend looking into the many Linux distributions available. I recommend Linux Mint to beginners, since it is generally the simplest to use.
Window edge snapping is incredibly frustrating. Linux desktops and Microsoft Windows have had proper window snapping support for decades.
Completely agree, if you want a good solution though, don’t use any of those window managers that people always list for Mac like magnet, rectangle, whatever other junk is being sold. Use hammerspoon. Not only will you get better window management than even Linux (yes, I’m still yet to find a solution like it for Linux), you’ll also get tons of other things like easy jumping to apps, automation capabilities that would be very hard to do in Automator, etc. It’s definitely the best app on Mac by far. Oh and it’s open source and free.
The app uninstall process is inconsistent, with some apps remaining contained in the .app folder while others spill out all over the system
Isn’t this the fault of the app though? Apps that need to do stuff outside of the bounds of a regular app install shit elsewhere. I do hate that though. Not really sure it’s better on Linux though. If you install using apt or yum or whatever then sure, but plenty of other apps don’t install that way and they can leave junk all over the place too.
The recovery mode process for resetting an Intel-based Mac is incredibly tedious and time consuming
A lot of stuff on the Intel macs are terrible lol.
WatchOS has an inconsistent and difficult to navigate UI. The bubble menu is inconsistent and difficult to navigate, and the list view requires that you sort by alphabetical when a “recently used” sort would be significantly more efficient.
Agreed, but you can also just see recent apps by double tapping the button on the side. You don’t need to go to the app list at all.
IOS doesn’t allow sideloading apps.
Very annoying
TVOS is filled with ads for Apple’s premium services like AppleTV+
The only place I’ve ever seen ads on TVos is literally on the Apple TV app. Where else are you seeing them?
IOS home screen icons cannot have blank space and must instead tile to the top of the screen.
This is so incredibly annoying for multiple reasons. Any time you try to move icons or folders around it makes it impossible because everything on screen reflows as you’re trying to organize. It’s fucking insane.
Methods for going back to what was previously onscreen are inconsistent in IOS.
This is the second time in a week I’ve seen someone say this. I don’t know what everyone is talking about. Can you explain more?
IOS browsers are required to use mobile Safari’s web engine
Answering your question on the inconsistent back button, there are simply too many of them. Sometimes it is the small text link with an arrow in the top left corner, sometimes it is a built in app back button, and sometimes the text version sticks around during navigation for no reason until it is clicked accidentally and throws back to the previous app.
I mean… I have several android tablets and have the exact same issue on those as well. Not sure how Android solves anything here. Except that you also get the hardware button that sometimes does absolutely nothing, or it goes back to a different location than the back button on screen.
I don’t think the examples you’ve given point toward the polish being “skin deep” id argue those features themselves are skin deep. The snapping isn’t important to me as i use full screen almost exclusively, apps being a mess (sometimes) isn’t a macos thing its a dev thing and so much less of a clusterfuck than uninstalling windows programs don’t even get me started. I have never had to recover any mac so I can’t comment on that. Having software that’s different and maybe a little clunky but rock solid almost never crashes is so much more worth it than software that can be tweaked to the max but crashes more often.
I have and do use Linux on my desktop every day I love Linux but it doesn’t compete in the video and photo editing software space in the same way as my mac does. things like final cut and the adobe suite are kinda essential for me and the open source options while very powerful and encouraging to see aren’t quite up to par.
I’ve been using a MacBook for my work for years now (not voluntarily). I’ve always had a Windows desktop as my main machine. Your experience is completely different from mine. I’ve found that it’s easy to use the MacBook, so long as I want to do things the way Apple dictates. With Windows, I can discover and tweak my own processes to work the way I want to. With Apple I feel entirely boxed in.
All that being said, I think the whole discussion can get ridiculous. It shouldn’t bother anyone one way or the other which product someone prefers, and most of the time, it sounds like a Pepsi vs Coke argument to me.
I always hear this argument “windows is more customizable” what do I really need to customize about my os to edit videos more efficiently how does customize ability lead to a smoother workflow. I use my mac for actual work and it pulls so far ahead of any windows computer I’ve owned in my life in terms of fluidity and stability hands down.
I agree, it’s convenient to have a lot of that stuff work right out of the box, but then some obvious stuff, like making a slideshow from pictures on a usb device, or printing to PDF, or using network printers on mobile is either needlessly complicated or impossible (Odd examples but I’m not a daily Mac or iPhone user, these are just things I’ve encountered working on other’s devices)
True theres some issues but as a complete bundle apples software outperforms in every task i need a computer for. (No i don’t play games on my pc i have consoles for that)
I’m convinced people who post these haven’t actually used apple devices seriously without going into it with their superiority complex. the fluidity and peace of mind not having to find fucking drivers for some shit from 2004 that have long been consumed by time it just plugs in and works. Or the fact that for instance a MacBook comes with everything you need to say decompress a file without downloading winrar or 7zip it’s built in. The apple version of ms office comes with the device. Not to mention the software being specifically written for the hardware means i haven’t had a day ruining crash in so long i can’t remember. Not having God damn ads on my desktop you gotta be kidding me. Text messages on all my devices. My mouse and keyboard on my mac can automatically control my iPad. Sure you can kinda do these things on the bootleg os’s kinda sorta but when it comes out of the box like that and i don’t have to fuck with 20 3rd party apps and ads on everything is 10000% worth it to me.
The walled golden garden is great isn’t it?
I am forced to use a MacBook at work and I fricking hate it. The software follows such strange HIGs. Just look at the finder. Why is the default action on a folder/file to RENAME it? If I press enter on a folder I want to enter it, if I press enter on a file I want to open it.
Why does apples keyboard layout with DEde Locale is so utterly strange compared to IBM keyboard layouts?
Why do they not print atleast the second modifier row on the keys?
To use Macintosh’s you really need to think differently.
But yeah the interconnection inside it’s eco system is pretty neat.
Also, why whine about drivers for something from 2004? You, certainly as a apple user, don’t have anything that old anyway. And the option to be able to use stuff from that age by installing a driver is super useful.
Im not Sure what you’re implying with that bit about not having anything that old. Yeah I do and when I plug it in it works immediately no windows bullshit it just works every time.
The Mac is mouse-centric. You double click to open anything , you right-click to access other operations.
If you single-click and then start using using the keyboard, it’s a fair bet that you want to rename it.
I’m pretty sure opt-enter will actually open the file if you want to open it… or cmd-O, of course
Or command+click because up until osx, or even way later than that macOS didnt even had rightclick.
I didn’t single-click on an item. I moved to the item with CURSOR KEYS and then hit enter. Why does the finder half asses this interaction (and moving a folder up) while moving the cursor and selecting/unselecting items is done like on other plattforms?
And this doesn’t strike you as being unintuitive?
The Mac introduced right click with System 8 in 1997. The keyboard equivalent is ctrl-click, by the way - not command click.
Not sure what you mean. Holding shift while using the keyboard (or mouse) will let you select multiple contiguous items. Hold cmd to select items dotted about.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 May be a helpful read
Not really, CMD-O for open, together with CMD-C for copy, CMD-V for paste etc were introduced in 1982 with the Apple Lisa.
As I say, Finder is primarily designed to be mouse driven, so most people will be using double-click to open, otherwise CMD-O is your friend.
The good news There is a tiny bit of freeware available called “PresButan” that will let you modify the Finder behaviour match your preferences. You can grab it here: http://briankendall.net/presButan/index.htm
Enjoy!
No I am saying that the Finder nearly got everything right in regards to keyboard interacting EXCEPT going up a Folder, entering a folder or executing a folder.
cmd-o is ONLY required on the macOS while other OSses and Systems just require a simple Enter-keystroke. That’s my issue! Needing a Daemon to fix this issue is quite odd to me.
What is wrong about going up a folder?
I think the problem is that you are keyboard-centric and the Finder, since its introduction is mouse-centric. Therefore the assumption is that if you have selected a file, whatever you’re going to do to it - ‘Open’ isn’t likely. Afterall, if you were going to open it, you would have double clicked on it, or dragged it on top of an application icon.
You can argue that that’s “bad” if you want - and OK. But the daemon will fix if for you.
Similarly, the mechanisms for going up a folder (and there are many) are mouse-centric.
I agree but the fediverse is built on open source evangelists you aren’t going to get a lot of agreement. I use an iPhone an Apple Watch and AirPods and have a work issued Mac I like them all just fine
Seems more like an apple user with superioty complex who never used other os to me
Or another person who just can’t let someone who likes apple devices, like them.
The op post is pretty terrible. It’s insultingly in their superior complex. That’s what most extreme “all users who do x” takes are.
The response wasn’t that there is no other way to fulfill this list of things that they like, but that for them, apple devices fulfill this list of things.
I’ve used plenty of OSes. I switch between Linux for our servers, windows on my work computer and my gaming computer, and apples oses on the apple devices I own. I prefer macos to windows any day. That’s my personal preference. You prefer Linux? Good, have fun. Windows? Sure, whatever floats your boats.
Well put
I’ve used every os under the sun and refined my opinion about them after giving them an honest go. Linux is my favourite (manjaro atm) but macs being integrated from head to toe is what sets them apart. Windows is a dumpster fire that’s only used because of it’s proliferation in the video game space and even that is changing other than specific software availability i don’t see reason someone should choose windows over Linux in this day and age.
Apart from office pre installed, Linux has all these benefits for free. And even then, many distros have FOSS alternatives pre installed. Not great if you NEED MSOffice for work, but many suites, like OnlyOffice, are fully compatible with MSO formats.
I agree Linux is amazing and I use it daily but the thing that sets macos apart is the integration with the hardware. i wouldn’t for instance make a pc specifically to turn into a hackintosh id just boot manjaro but as a hardware software package macos and m1/2/pro/max are what makes it worth the money for me.
In what way? You didn’t say.
Coukd you… be more specific?
Every windows computer/android phone I’ve ever used has crashed at least once a week if not daily because they’re trying to account for all hardware configurations possible my MacBook and iPhone have crashed maybe 4 times combined in their lifetimes. Having my app im using on my phone preloaded on my iPad and mac ready to go when I pick it up, my mac automatically sensing that I put my iPad next to it and automatically connecting the keyboard and trackpad to it. Being able to run iPhone apps on my mac without emulation. Projecting my iPad or iPhone display to my MacBook. I’m sure theres so much more im missing.
Yeah Windows is shit, that’s why I use Linux
Woah, cool! Completely unrelated, but I just upvoted your comment and it reloaded just that comment to reflect your recent update! Didn’t have that on reddit!
Ah, I also was unaware of this feature. That’s good. I’m terrible at proofreading, and always end up needing to back and correct things after posting. So, if someone’s already typing before i edit, there’s still a chance they’ll see my edit before sending their pedantic correction haha!
Your point is solid, but that level of polish on Apple products is only skin deep. For example, there are several missing features and issues with MacOS that have gone unaddressed for years.
Window edge snapping is incredibly frustrating. Linux desktops and Microsoft Windows have had proper window snapping support for decades.
The app uninstall process is inconsistent, with some apps remaining contained in the .app folder while others spill out all over the system.
The recovery mode process for resetting an Intel-based Mac is incredibly tedious and time consuming.
However, MacOS isn’t the only Apple product with issues.
WatchOS has an inconsistent and difficult to navigate UI. The bubble menu is inconsistent and difficult to navigate, and the list view requires that you sort by alphabetical when a “recently used” sort would be significantly more efficient.
IOS doesn’t allow sideloading apps.
TVOS is filled with ads for Apple’s premium services like AppleTV+
IOS home screen icons cannot have blank space and must instead tile to the top of the screen.
Methods for going back to what was previously onscreen are inconsistent in IOS.
IOS browsers are required to use mobile Safari’s web engine.
However, this isn’t to say that Apple products are bad, simply to remind you that they do have flaws. Based on your wording of “bootleg os’s” I can’t quite tell what your referring to. Windows is the only OS I’m aware of other than MacOS that has heavy advertising, but your phrasing seems to place it in a different category altogether. Although if you are looking for a new OS to try I highly recommend looking into the many Linux distributions available. I recommend Linux Mint to beginners, since it is generally the simplest to use.
I am not who you were talking to, but:
Completely agree, if you want a good solution though, don’t use any of those window managers that people always list for Mac like magnet, rectangle, whatever other junk is being sold. Use hammerspoon. Not only will you get better window management than even Linux (yes, I’m still yet to find a solution like it for Linux), you’ll also get tons of other things like easy jumping to apps, automation capabilities that would be very hard to do in Automator, etc. It’s definitely the best app on Mac by far. Oh and it’s open source and free.
Isn’t this the fault of the app though? Apps that need to do stuff outside of the bounds of a regular app install shit elsewhere. I do hate that though. Not really sure it’s better on Linux though. If you install using apt or yum or whatever then sure, but plenty of other apps don’t install that way and they can leave junk all over the place too.
A lot of stuff on the Intel macs are terrible lol.
Agreed, but you can also just see recent apps by double tapping the button on the side. You don’t need to go to the app list at all.
Very annoying
The only place I’ve ever seen ads on TVos is literally on the Apple TV app. Where else are you seeing them?
This is so incredibly annoying for multiple reasons. Any time you try to move icons or folders around it makes it impossible because everything on screen reflows as you’re trying to organize. It’s fucking insane.
This is the second time in a week I’ve seen someone say this. I don’t know what everyone is talking about. Can you explain more?
This is also super annoying.
Answering your question on the inconsistent back button, there are simply too many of them. Sometimes it is the small text link with an arrow in the top left corner, sometimes it is a built in app back button, and sometimes the text version sticks around during navigation for no reason until it is clicked accidentally and throws back to the previous app.
I mean… I have several android tablets and have the exact same issue on those as well. Not sure how Android solves anything here. Except that you also get the hardware button that sometimes does absolutely nothing, or it goes back to a different location than the back button on screen.
I don’t think the examples you’ve given point toward the polish being “skin deep” id argue those features themselves are skin deep. The snapping isn’t important to me as i use full screen almost exclusively, apps being a mess (sometimes) isn’t a macos thing its a dev thing and so much less of a clusterfuck than uninstalling windows programs don’t even get me started. I have never had to recover any mac so I can’t comment on that. Having software that’s different and maybe a little clunky but rock solid almost never crashes is so much more worth it than software that can be tweaked to the max but crashes more often.
I have and do use Linux on my desktop every day I love Linux but it doesn’t compete in the video and photo editing software space in the same way as my mac does. things like final cut and the adobe suite are kinda essential for me and the open source options while very powerful and encouraging to see aren’t quite up to par.
I’ve been using a MacBook for my work for years now (not voluntarily). I’ve always had a Windows desktop as my main machine. Your experience is completely different from mine. I’ve found that it’s easy to use the MacBook, so long as I want to do things the way Apple dictates. With Windows, I can discover and tweak my own processes to work the way I want to. With Apple I feel entirely boxed in.
All that being said, I think the whole discussion can get ridiculous. It shouldn’t bother anyone one way or the other which product someone prefers, and most of the time, it sounds like a Pepsi vs Coke argument to me.
I always hear this argument “windows is more customizable” what do I really need to customize about my os to edit videos more efficiently how does customize ability lead to a smoother workflow. I use my mac for actual work and it pulls so far ahead of any windows computer I’ve owned in my life in terms of fluidity and stability hands down.
I agree, it’s convenient to have a lot of that stuff work right out of the box, but then some obvious stuff, like making a slideshow from pictures on a usb device, or printing to PDF, or using network printers on mobile is either needlessly complicated or impossible (Odd examples but I’m not a daily Mac or iPhone user, these are just things I’ve encountered working on other’s devices)
True theres some issues but as a complete bundle apples software outperforms in every task i need a computer for. (No i don’t play games on my pc i have consoles for that)