- cross-posted to:
- latex@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- latex@programming.dev
Context: LaTeX is a typesetting system. When compiling a document, a lot of really in-depth debugging information is printed, which can be borderline incomprehensible to anyone but LaTeX experts. It can also be a visual hindrance when looking for important information like errors.
LaTeX is soo great! You don’t have to worry about formatting ever again.
Puts image I’m talking about 8 pages away from the section that talks about the image
Writes not only over the margin, but over the goddamn page boundary because adding a page was not fashionable that day
Moves a table left by 1 cm on every other compilation, moves it back in the other compilations (happened to a colleague)
So instead of worrying about formatting you worry about learning the incantations that force LaTeX at gunpoint not to fuck up the formatting.
Switched to typst a few months ago, enjoying it much more than LaTeX so far. Really excited to see how it will grow in the future
Yeees, I forgot all about the non-existent module system.
– Professor: Here’s the template for your thesis.
– There are, like, 50 lines of macro imports here. Which modules does this need?
– Fuck if I know. You want my installation? It’s only 50GB.
Just let me use the university wide template everyone uses instead of having a dedicated template for your department that looks like shit, uses a shitty ass font, and integrates packages I despise. god fucking dammit
As long as you let TeX do it’s job, you usually don’t get such issues. But there are many people who mistake TeX as a “Word for Scientists”, and just make the same mistakes they make in Word because they do not grok TeX.
I feel personally attacked. Brb, making presentation slides in beamer and compiling 1000 times to get the figure to the exact right pixel.
I definitely won’t make any changes to the figure later that will make me have to adjust the position again. Why yes, this is better than PowerPoint, why do you ask?
If you’re trying to do pixel adjustments of figure position and changing it breaks something, you missed the point of the software package and/or are doing something horribly wrong and unsupported.
Sheesh, now I feel actually attacked a little. I was being mostly hyperbolic, but you can do really useful things with complex figures in presentations. For example: revealing elements sequentially to build up to the final figure or altering opacity of different elements to bring the audience’s attention to specific parts of the figure.
This sequencing can sometimes very subtly alter the size of the figure as you change elements, so the default positioning will slightly change from one slide to the next. Most people won’t care or notice when a figure slightly drifts by a pixel or two during these sequences, but it bothers me tremendously so I add adjustments to keep every variation of the figure aligned on the slides.
If you’re trying to do something on LaTeX and you find yourself wrestling with the software or writing TeX commands. Take a step back and reconsider. The reason the software is fighting you is because you are trying to make it do something it is not meant for or you’re actively asking it to do the opposite of what you stated earlier you wanted to achieve. Thus creating a contradiction of intent.
Obvious examples are using the article template to write a book, or using the book template to write a letter. It is akin to using Excel as a game engine, possible, but not easily. You’re trying to use a hammer to unscrew a bolt. Of course the tool is gonna fight you.
Wise words, and true most of the time.
But goddammit is it so hard not to write over the page border? This isn’t something I should have to specifically define as bad.
You don’t generally have to. There’s a package or environment somewhere that lifted that restriction or force it by trying to do something else. LaTeX is 100% deterministic. Someone, you perhaps unknowingly, told it to put that text there while trying to achieve something else.
Remember that LaTeX is about setting rules then letting it arrange the text in a way that follows those rules. If you try to meddle into the typography by hand, forcing specifics that break the rules, you will break its behavior. If it is putting text over the margin, it is because it determined that is the only way to fulfill the totality of your instructions.
For the image one there is an option to control if the image is immediate, or when if finds space to insert. Trouble is I have to look these up all the time…so what starts as an attempt at creating a cleanly formatted document often takes more time than messing around with a shitty editor like Word
If you don’t want an image to float, don’t put it in a float environment.
Exactly my point.
Its always bothered me that a language meant to get rid of formatting there seems to be a lot of fucking formatting. There’s no way to change the way things look outside of explicit formatting (like themes). It’s basically all formatting.
And it’s a fucking mess. How in the fuck do I make titles? What about subtitles? Why is there no paragraph spacing? What’s the point of \title if it’s completely indistinguishable from other text?
I want a markdown editor that supports math LaTeX and a ton of plugins. Markdown is dead simple for a reason.
Your editor shoul show you \title as another colour
And subtitle would be \large after title line
It is all formatting rules. But eliminates formatting the body text.
At least you know output will be same, not like MS Word
Oh thank goodness, body text is notoriously the hardest thing to format in a document
If you had seen some of the Word documents I have, you would not joke about that. People can really f-up text bodies.
Example: one guy wanted to keep two paragraphs together. He did not know about the necessary formatting option, but he knew that chapter titles did what he wanted. So he made the first paragraph a title and just reset font, size, etc to resemble a normal text. F-ed up quite some things…
That’s just an effect of shitty software that does too much (and yes I’m advocating for a simpler Word or something. Markdown is fine for 95% of use cases.)
Guess what? I have moved my large text layouts over to HTML. Creating printed TOCs in a PDF takes some effort, but once I got that under control, it worked. Takes a makefile, though, and a bit of discipline in the HTML file, but the result is surprisingly good.
Anything you put that amount of effort into should be good, as long as you actually care about it.
I’ve come to that conclusion, too. If only printing support were better, I wouldn’t write anything but HTML.
Have you tried weasyprint? It turns .html into .pdf. Then I use a script with pdfinfo with the -dests option to get the page numbers of the chapters, mixes it with chapter titles from the .html file to create a ToC, which, in turn, gets included into the .html file again - just like TeX does it.
This is helpful in an environment where inputs are either HTML or EPUB files, and output is PDF for printing, HTML for the web site, and/or EPUB-formate.
Okay now what would happen if you made him use LaTeX?
I don’t know if that person would have the intellectual capacity to actually understand the very concept of TeX: Writing a source and compiling it into a document. That idea would probably fry his mind.
Lmao the hits keep coming
I see a lot of strange takes around here, and honestly cannot understand where you are coming from. Like really: I’ve written several 100+ page documents with everything from basic tables, figures and equations, to various custom-formatted environments and programmatically generated sections, and I’ve never encountered even a third of these formatting issues people are talking about.
You literally just \documentclass[whatever]{my doc type}, \usepackage{stuff} and fire away. To be honest, I’ve seen some absolutely horrifying preambles and unnecessary style sheets, and feel the need to ask: How are you people making latex so hard?
I’ve used LyX with good results, it’s a GUI that abstracts away many of the complexities of latex.
I believe Joplin has latex math support, check it out.