What do you think crowd sourcing means
It means a bunch of people doing working in very narrow fields that need to be connected by someone with an overarching view, but there are so many so small fields, that it’s impossible for a human to handle. In this particular case.
Unless you figured out telepathy. Then I retract my statements - a large enough network of directly connected telepaths could do this.
Look at this fucking guy. Likely not a bot. But is an example of someone who is posting pattern is suspicious
You have just defined why your method doesn’t work.
There is no issue with random people using LLM to craft their messages. The issue is using a network of bots to promote the latest marvel movie
You either detect AI by their language or you don’t.
But, I think, I know what you mean. Your idea is like Bat-sonar, the super-totally-not-magical computer he built in the second or third Nolan film that allowed him to spy on everybody and thus detect crimes faster.
You want a system that would monitor ALL content online and detect “patterns”. Like, “huh, weirdly, we have XXX number of people writing positively about the new JJ Abrams film”, or “check it out, in the past hour we’ve had 43243 comments negative about MAGA”.
Right?
If so: mate… You require literal magic to pull it off. WAY too many false positives or just impossible to trace dependencies. You would have to not only monitor for these patterns, but also associate them with any real-world events (ALL events), because maybe a Polish nationalist politician said something about the financing methods of their military, which got popular on russian Twitter, got a funny anti-MAGA retweet by a Ukrainian, ended up as a reaction video on British TikTok, and got posted to Reddit where it got upvoted to r/All and received 43243 100% legitimate comments complaining about MAGA.
Funnily enough, if anything, MAYBE a complex enough AI system would be capable of finding these patterns, but there’s absolutely no physical possibility of humans doing that.
Mate, how does any of that help when you’re up against literal cyber military units and propaganda farms financed by hostile governments?
Precisely. Any of the listed options is better than a captcha. None of the options are perfect, obviously, we’re using yesterday’s tech to solve a tomorrow’s problem, but it’s something, and it doesn’t immediately mean “privacy online is dead”.
It’s just building and gamify strategically. There’s no magic here. It works. Bots can adapt all they want. They’re still constraint and limited by technology and money.
How much of what I wrote so far was done via an LLM?
Did you refuse to read a Reddit post, or fail to understand it?
Out of the three options Spez has mentioned, two guarantee privacy. The third is - and he mentions the pitfalls - the use of government issued e-IDs. This is problematic for obvious reasons, however - properly implemented - can also guarantee privacy.
You have got to be joking, right?
“The solution to AI companies doing illegal shit is to ask them nicely to let us know when they’re doing it”. HCaptcha only works until it doesn’t.
FFS, do you guys just not understand a thing you’re reading, or flat out refuse to read anything on Reddit?
Who says anything about ID checks or HCaptchas?
Did you not read anything from the linked post, or did you fail to understand it?
Who says anything about government ID?
What’s the alternative?
Nobody on the Lemmy side is talking about fixing the AI problem. The only reason why you don’t see a flood of LLM content is that we’re too small for anyone to give enough of a shit. If we grow enough, we’ll get flooded just like any other social media platform, and federation does nothing to protect us from this.
I’m glad they did this because it finally gave me the push to move all my stuff to Codeberg.
It’s really weird to me how literally anything they say or do is immediately interpreted in the worst possible way here, on Lemmy.
Let’s get real for a second.
Is there a bot problem on the Internet in general? That’s a resounding “yes”.
Do we want to do something about it?
According to OP - no, not at all.
I mean, if OP considers malicious everything that Spez listed, the only remaining course of action is inaction and hoping for the best.
by your claim, the field can have any series of numbers, that there is no way to determine if it is accurate, and the law that this was done to appease is bad, as in not able to obtain its expected result. and so the data is useless.
Yeah, so this tells me you have no clue what you’re actually talking about.
You don’t even stop to think for a second that maybe some enterprise setting requires such fields. Maybe they have software that populates account information based on their HR systems’ data, auto-creating user accounts? Maybe they can find a DoB field useful? Zero clue, zero thought, just “I don’t use it, therefore it’s useless”.
No point in continuing this discussion, I guess.
Again: what authority do you have to decide which data fields are useful, and which aren’t?
How do you personally differentiate between “useful” and “useless”? Is it: “I have no need for it therefore it needs to be removed”, by any chance?
Why hasn’t the discussion started when realName was introduced?
Someone may find these data points useful, for whatever reason. No point in being angry at a date field, mate.
I am saying we should be crowd sourcing our collective anger and ADHD or Autism or whatever (…) and instead focus on collection of the worst bot infestations.
That’s what “being a moderator” is, mate. You want hundreds of thousands of moderators.
There are patterns. Bots are not random enough that they can’t be identified with large crowd sourced efforts
It becomes obvious there is a script only when you collect the data and begin to analyze it.
You just said:
I am not saying we need to build our own bot detection
So, which is it?
It becomes obvious there is a script only when you collect the data and begin to analyze it.
There’s a massive difference between local news stations receiving a script to read out, and a bot farm having a “be negative, unfriendly, sow chaos” instruction.
At the start it won’t be accurate
So, it just won’t work? Got it.
But as more data is collected it’ll become obvious
I don’t think you undersand what you’re talking about. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to be contrarian here, I just honestly think that your idea of “AI bots” is kind of like “we have prepared one million sentences, and now our bots will be picking between them to generate whole posts on social networks”.
I mean, sure, there can be patterns - like the whole “LinkedIn post” style, where most of the time it’s fairly obvious that you’re reading an AI-generated slop… But that’s not what state-entities or even just hackers use. They have access to much more sophisticated content.
If the bots were that good, these websites would have left their APIs open.
Reddit’s API is no longer open. Didn’t do a thing to stop bots.
But they closed them so we can’t collect this data
You don’t need however many API keys to collect that kind of data. At least not from Reddit.
Our inaction to do anything when the greatest opportunities are right in front of us but slipping away is a tragedy of this generation.
Your proposed action is the equivalent of Sisyphus and his stone. Because you really seem to be forgetting that the AI tech is getting better all the time. And that any AI-detection actions you take feed that process. “Oh, they’ve detected these posts? OK, let’s tweak the algo until we get through and then flood them with our content”.
Let’s even assume that you somehow pull it off and get a 100% detection rate as of right now. Six months down the line that will go down to 20%. Etc. etc. And you’ll be catching thousands of legitimate users in the crossfire.
An anonymous “proof of humanity” token solves all AI issues without anyone having to spend billions on research and manpower.
because it’s too late at that point, which is the whole point and issue!
A PR is when the discussion is supposed to happen. It’s an open source project, nothing happens “too late” to discuss. You see that change in the pull request, you can start moaning about it.
if the field is necessary, but the data is useless, then it shouldn’t be there
Who defines what’s “useless”? You? On what authority?
So, how about we start freaking out when someone starts making these fields required, instead of right away?
However, once this field exists, it enables later reference and/or mandatory dependencies
Yeah, this is a devious plan that has been going on for years, when they added the realName field!
You just replied with a “nuh-uh!” and call me “terminally online”? That’s a good one.
You seem know a bunch of buzz-words that you don’t fully understand, like “crowd sourcing” in this instance. It’s like a magic wand, “just crowd source it, and it’ll just work”, without realising that - again, unless telepathy is involved - a crowd is still just a bunch of individuals. Without instantaneous real time communication no single individual can spot such a massive pattern as those you are after. Without spotting the “big picture”, the whole thing is pointless.