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You say that as if they have a choice. You can’t at the same time mourn walkable cities and criticize the fact that everything NEEDS a car and then turn around and make fun of the driver.
Would YOU share a road with cars on your bike?
I live in a very walkable and bikable city and yet plenty of people choose to drive here most every chance they get. They think biking is for poor people.
I love in a mid walkable city and don’t even own a car, but every time I arrive at the gym (which is one block away from a transit hub), the parking lot is jam packed
That is quite sad. It’s a self perpetuating thing. People think biking is too hard or unsafe (or for poor people), and so they drive. Because so many keep driving, it doesn’t get much safer and the progress toward better bike infrastructure can be quite a slow roll. And sometimes that progress gets reversed :'(
I used to try and bike everywhere I could but I had a few scary situations happen. Close calls, getting screamed at, and threats, one guy jumped out of his car even…it was discouraging and so now I prefer walking or public transportation honestly.
I live in a small Australian city designed by an American when America was first embracing highways. It has a city centre which had until recently only a thousand single family homes within walking distance*, then there are suburbs accessed by small highways (typically 2 lanes each way)
But it has reasonable public transport, and good bike paths between suburbia and the city away from the highways (or if you prefer, on painted lanes on some of the highways)
*Now we have mixed use towers in town
My part of suburbia to town is 20 minutes by car, 40 in peak, 45 minutes by express bus in peak, 55mins to 1hr 15 by off peak bus, and about an hour by the isolated bike path, 45 mins by the painted bike lanes (and sometimes nothing)
Canberra?
Correct, the southern part, hence no mention of a tram
I hear (from Sydney) that it’s quite controversial
they think biking is for poor people
You genuinely believe this is the reason people choose to drive when they have the option to bike?
Is it seriously so unfathomable to consider some people just prefer to drive?
It often is said out loud so yes I believe it’s often the case
I wish I knew why they prefer to drive. It is obvious, that they do, but the reason is hard to understand for me. Going by bike is faster, healthier, cheaper, helps reduce emissions of all sorts and sets you up for a happier mindset.
A seemingly absurd reason like “people think biking is for poor people” doesn’t seem to be so absurd after all, considering the enormous amount of people deciding to take the car instead of the bike. It at least has to be one of the reasons, it’s just a matter of probability.
I believe we also need better bikes - like velomobiles except designed easier to get in and out and less claustrophobic. Something like the podbike but non-electric. An enclosed space is something the car has that people want. Also recumbent bikes are more comfortable to ride. Something like a “velocar”.
I hate bicycles, they hurt my ass. I’m trying to build my own recumbent tadpole atm and want to build a velocar later.
I think if you want it to be easy to get in and out of, crank forward, or feet forward bicycles are a pretty good idea, like the rans bicycles, the day 6 bicycles, stuff like that. The tradeoff being that the front profile is kind of bunk on those in terms of the aerodynamics, at least, at the cost of the weight it would take to cover it, like a true velomobile. We also gotta ask why you’re covering it. If it’s just safety from weather elements, that’s fine, but it brings other problems, like the enclosed space getting pretty hot if you leave it sitting around, like the shell needing to be visible while still in the rain, and easily see-through, too, which is more of a problem when you don’t have windshield wipers, and when your window’s more slanted, like what it is on most velomobiles that have windows. If you’re adding A/C or heat for thermal regulation, those take up space and weight. Also would probably be a good idea for defogging the window, which is probably a larger concern in an enclosed space where you’re sweating a lot more. I dunno, I’ve just seen a lot of these “bike car” concepts, like the twike, or the podbike, and I haven’t seen much come of any of them, because they’re just too fuckin heavy, and at least in america, everyone’s concerned with what might happen if a driver gets distracted by this weird little bean floating around everywhere, and what happens if they get into a crash. Maybe one might have more luck by cutting weight, adding photovoltaic cells to power some of the electric systems, and then just chasing the maximum aero, like what aptera’s done, but yeah, I haven’t seen anyone actually tackle the problem in a way that makes much sense. I’m also gonna shout out the problem of these being much harder to park than a normal bike on a bike rack. You already see that with recumbents, but you see that even more with velomobiles, and that inefficient stacking might work out to be more concerning at scale, with mass deployment.
It’s also kind of inherently a niche product, with a low market demand, and so that drives up the costs for people who would otherwise be fine with the idea, and that’s all maybe a bigger problem than anything I’ve said thus far. Those who would be interested are probably going to be fine swapping out all the subsystems, and if they’re doing that, they’re probably just interested in buying your canopy, more than anything else, in buying your shell. I think you’re seeing technology play catch-up in terms of e-bikes, but most people at this point are better suited to your standard moped. The honda super cub is still the best selling motor vehicle of all time, and if I remember right, it’s not really even close. People are more willing to dress for the weather, and tolerate that, if they’re not also powering the vehicle, and working up a sweat.
Thanks for the reply, you’re clearly well informed about all the issues. I have some ideas but those are tough problems.
if you want it to be easy to get in and out of, crank forward, or feet forward bicycles are a pretty good idea
Yeah normal SWB recumbent bicycles are the easiest to hop oh and off and do improve aerodynamics. Personally I also want to build a MBB flevobike design where you steer with your feet, people say they are very fun to ride. Generally recumbents are faster, more comfortable and safer (lower to the ground) than upright.
For velomobiles, the podbike is pioneering the “low entry hurdle”. Not having to “climb in” but just “step in and sit down”" makes a huge difference in marketing I believe. Getting in and out doesn’t have to be that tricky like with pure velomobiles, the orca velomobile also improved this. You don’t really need compromises to make that happen and you reduce the “niche” factor.
We also gotta ask why you’re covering it.
Yeah windscreen with rain and condensation is why the best practice right now is to only have a tiny visor that can have advanced coating or double glass motorcycle visor. There are potential solutions for larger windscreen but it gets tricky, like heated glass or coatings or double panels or design of a new type of aerodynamic wiper, real glass on the outside to avoid scratches etc.
One reason why I think covering it is important is because an enclosed “private” space is what makes cars so popular. I can’t exactly put my finger on it but if velomobiles could replicate that feeling of “being in your own car” it could make these types of “velocars” more popular and lead to less people driving cars.
Again, Podbike is the best design for this but it’s too heavy (65kg) and doesn’t have efficient mechanical transmission. But they have a ton of interest and preorders because they consequently designed to make it appealing - if they could get the costs down to say 1000-2000€ for something like that and lighter, you would be looking at a massive market. Price is the major hurdle really but that is a question of investment and maybe subsidies. And maybe robotics to build them. Or ship them from China.
It’s also kind of inherently a niche product
I don’t see why that would be inherent. You’re right that scooters or pedelecs have inherent advantages in a dense city, but for medium commutes I don’t see a fundamental hurdle for velo cars. If the cycle infrastructure is improved too. There are might be technical solutions to improve turning radius.
You can also stand the podbike vertically on it’s back to save parking space. Not sure how practical that is though haha.
And yeah there are a lot of too heavy velo car concepts. We need to find the right compromise between pure velomobile (e.g quest, quadro etc) and a more practical and open inviting velomobile.
I ride my bike to the gym like 9 months out of the year. I always try and put more miles on the bikes than the ODO.
Exactly! People who have a better option will take that. It’s not like they like sitting in traffic.
I’m trying to find a good odometer for my next bike. I don’t want to track rides as workouts, but I wanna prove that I bike more than I drive. Garmin makes one that I’m looking at that goes on your wheel hub and can be intermittently synced to a phone
I’ve always just tagged everything as a ride. Garmin lets you make new profiles so you can have any number of activities outside the normal bunch.
Nice, I just did some research and what I did was add a new “gear” for my bike and set that to automatically be added to cycle activities. I ordered the Garmin Speed Sensor 2, it doesn’t need a bike computer, just syncs to your phone. Then I just have to remember this summer when I mountain bike to manually change the gear for each activity to my other bike. Wish you could specify gear for each activity type instead of each general type
I do and therefore can. fuck cars
The pictured city chose to spend a hundred million per mile on the pictured road, that could have bought a reasonable amount of fast mass transit
Yeah but then I’d have to sit next to a Poor, instead of just driving past them sleeping on the ground in serene comfort.
Oh, MAMILS are anything but poor.
I get you’re joking, but to address the person you’re parodying: yeah 'cause the homeless are commuting to work too
Was it 100 million per mile for the entire thing, or just 100 million per mile to expand it by a lane?
I believe it was the widening project, +1 lane each way for 100M per mile, probably including acquiring what used to be high density residential buildings
Or climate, many people don’t have the luxury to live in 10-25 deg range.
…there are cities in northern europe where it’s freezing half the year and people still go by bike. Below 10 isn’t even particularly cold. And as much as I die in those temps above 25 also isn’t all that hot. Dangerous temps are still quite a bit above that.
You have an argument at below -10 or above 30 (latter depending on humidity) maybe
Unfortunately we don’t all share your health and fitness.
Climate is not a valid reason outside of places like Arizona that get dangerously hot outside.
Understand it as a societal critique then?
If only we had more foresight and built that one extra lane…
Sadly bike lanes become unusable at times. The ones that run parallel with roads often get all the debris from the road thrown onto them. In autumn the leaves gather there making it very dangerous as they can hide holes and even large objects like bricks. Not to mention leaves are very slippery when wet.
As a road cyclist, it pains me to say this but cars actually clear the roads from debris due to the sheer volume of cars and their much wider tyres.
I live in quite a rural area now and the back roads are full of mud, stones and sand from farms fields and trackers.
Too bad the bike lanes here are swarmed with motorcycles. I will literally die riding a bike on the streets where I live.
Netherlands?
I doubt so
What makes you think that? Netherlands is notriously bad for cycling, I’ve never seen a bicycle there
Oh damn is it really? I thought it was good. I’ve been considering my options for moving there in the future and I had no idea.
they’re joking or woefully ignorant. the government decided to prioritize cycles and the infrastructure is second to none.
It is very bicycle friendly, no idea what that other user is talking about…
Pretty sure they were joking. The “I’ve never seen a bicycle there” gives it away cos the place is rammed full of bikes!
Yeah I mean I was “window shopping” for living spaces there and all of the apartments touted some kind of bike parking with pictures showing them filled with bikes so I was confused.
I got so confused cause everything I saw indicated that but I haven’t done in depth research on that specific topic so I thought it was something I just missed. Thanks, either way I’ll be searching up the answers on my own haha
I could get a stationary bicycle at home but I like to be around people when I exercise.
I could take a train to the gym, but I don’t like to be around other people.
I could get a regular bicycle, but I don’t have anywhere to go.
I could bicycle to the gym but when I get there I’m too tired to exercise.
, but I don’t have anywhere to go.
…the gym maybe?
but when I get there I’m too tired to exercise.
I don’t see how that’s a problem? Two problems solved. You’ve exercised and saved money on the gym.
Its a joke.
A big part of the problem is the same people tasked with modelling traffic are well paid to design roads. Funnily they find that more road is always the solution
Where I live (major UK City) they’re removing roads and traffic lanes to widen pavement and add in bicycle lanes.
Some places are definitely going in the right direction
I’ve always hated the gym. The whole concept is anathema to me. I LOVE exrcise though so I’ll try to do it in other ways. Walk places instead of drive. Run instead of walk. Bike. Do martial arts (learning a skill!).
I’ll do anything except work out in a sweat box.
Bro, I’m the opposite to you. I cannot adhere to exercise that’s done outside in an uncontrolled environment. I feel like a neanderthal. I also can’t exercise if I’m not logging it, so it might not be an indoors vs outdoors thing.
Maybe it’s the weather where I live. I also prefer to drive places, or take public transport. Anything with air conditioning. Anyway, nice to meet my fitness ideology nemesis.
I cycle to the gym, which is a great warmup to lift weights, which I do not have at home.
Gyms are depressing to me. They also stink.
I suppose I’m glad I have a low sensitivity nose. I think growing up with siblings might have had some blunting effect on my olfactory senses.
I agree in general but, living in a cold climate, gyms are necessary for me in the winter if I want to get exercise. It lowers the barrier for me to get exercise since it means I don’t need to try to go running in full winter gear.
Same here, I love taking the stairs instead of the lift! Highly recommend.
bulldoze some urban blocks to build more lanes?
We’ll start with yours and your families home
When public transport is deemed too communist by the plebs.
They stink and it’s depressing especially in London.
Could have left it at stuck in traffic ngl
The traffic backup is because a cyclist was run over.
![[meme] if only there were another way](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5d99c673-186d-4189-a15d-d002523bf033.jpeg){kind=link}