• bedrooms@kbin.social
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    10 months ago

    Imagine you, your friends and your family get killed and washed away from your land, and 2/3 of US people don’t believe it’s genocide.

    • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know. Also, only1/3 of Americans saying this is a genocide isn’t great, but it does represent a huge shift in opinion in a short time. Both our political parties support Israel, our news media doesn’t cover Palestinians very sympathetically, and our education system tells a very favorable version of Israel’s founding (most Americans don’t even learn about the Nakba). I don’t think criticism of Israel has ever been this mainstream (at least in my lifetime).

      • bedrooms@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know

        That means

        1. 1/3 believe it’s genocide
        2. 1/3 believe it’s not
        3. 2/3 do not believe it’s genocide
        • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I see what you’re trying to say, but that’s not really true. You could say, “2/3 of people would not say they thought it was a genocide,” but that’s not the same as saying, “2/3 do not believe it’s genocide.”

          It’s a small but important distinction. It’s the equivalent of saying, “1/3 of people are religious, 1/3 of people are atheist, and 1/3 of people are agnostic,” and then trying to say that means, “2/3 of people don’t believe in God,” instead of, “2/3 of people aren’t religious.”

    • Doorbook@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Average Us public have no clue what is going on in their own country, it is actually amazing there 1/3 know at least there is a genocide taking place.

    • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Well, did my family join Hamas and then force me to stay to die as a martyr inside a building that Israel just told us they were going to bomb?

      I think I’d be fine with the US not calling that genocide. If they did I hope they’d at least blame the actually responsible party.

    • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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      10 months ago

      Murdering people at a music festival and taking hostages might have an effect on public perception.

      • qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        The problem is, before they wemt on that murdering spree, the western world pretty much ignored their plight, or maybe tutted when they chucked a rocket or two over the border. But any kind of “proper” political solution was flatly ignored. It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I umderstand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude. And look, they actually have a tonne of eyeballs and attention on their shitty situation (and shitty leaders), so maybe something will come of this. Palestinians are paying an exorbitantly heavy price for it, though.

        • grue@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I understand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude.

          Reminds me of this.

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          Sure, but again - if you murder people at a music festival and take hostages, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that terrorists won that one.

          • ???@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Sure, but again, if you indiscriminately kill innocent people in Gaza and destroy the very last university, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

            • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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              10 months ago

              Absolutely. Not sure why you would think I don’t understand the hatred Israel is getting.

              The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

              Not sure what Israel won, despite making sure there will be another generation of Palestinian freedom fighters with rather questionable methods.

              • ???@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.

                I agree, Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.

                • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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                  10 months ago

                  I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.

                  But you were responding to a actual person, me. So it would have helped if you clarified it wasn’t about me - don’t you think?

                  Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.

                  Even that sounds to me like a win for the terrorists - but I can see, people have different view.

                  • ???@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    It’s directed to you. It just makes no statements about you personally, just responding to your opinion. Hope that clarifies it.

            • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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              10 months ago

              The concept of terrorism in general. Once again it was able to achieve an escalation of violence and therefore create more terrorism.

                  • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    You said escalations of violence cause terrorism.

                    Any just war is an escalation of violence if nothing else.

                    Therefore by your logic, a just war causes terrorism.

                    The implication by your logic is that no war should be had so as not to cause terrorism.

                    I would agree if you said all war causes vengeful losers to resort to desperate acts of violence against innocent people. I do not agree that a just war should be called off because the enemy on the receiving end of that justice will probably lash out in its death throes. That would be called negotiating with terrorists.

                    If you are worried about more terrorists, I agree bombing terrorists causes more terrorists, but negotiating with them opens the floodgates. And it’s not like we don’t have enough bombs.

      • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Two wrongs don’t make a right. A county based on abrahamic religion should know that. It just proves that they don’t actually believe in their own religion and only hide behind it whenever it’s convenient for them, like saying anybody who disagrees with them supports Hamas.

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          Two wrongs don’t make a right

          Absolutely agree.

          A county based on abrahamic religion should know that

          Dude, have you seen all the shit countries based on abrahamic religions have done through out the history?

          ike saying anybody who disagrees with them supports Hamas.

          And the other side says that anyone disagreeing with them is a genocidal nazi. I would say the whole discussion at this point is rather heated and fucked up.

        • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Which Abrahamic religion are you referring to?

          If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him, fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him. Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, and whoever kills a person shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:19-21)

          • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            What happens if you take both eyes? And the eyes of their family and their neighbors and the people didn’t the street? Is that allowed or?