Just curious what the oldest game is that you’ve played, and whether you enjoyed it or not. I’m less interested in the technical experience, so you can use the original release date, even if you played a more modern implementation.

For me, Fate/stay night just barely beats Clannad, by a few months. Both were released in 2004, and both show their age a little bit (Clannad in its convoluted branching, Fate in its resolution options), but are perfectly playable. But of course both are super popular classics, so I wonder if you all had similar experiences with more obscure or older titles.

  • Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.spaceM
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    1 year ago

    Pretty much, I have ONScripter through the AUR (onscripter and onscripter-en) which I can use to run these games.

    Then we used precisely the same packages to achieve that. I don’t even remember where I heard about ONScripter and thought to use it. I couldn’t get it to run through WINE, so it was fortunate I figured that out.

    I had a quick look at that, is it for accessibility or are you just trying to get the text out for other reasons (if it’s the second I’ve had success using AETools on the Nscript.dat file).

    I’m using visual novels as a method of learning Japanese. Textractor extracts the Japanese text from the game, copies it to my clipboard, and then Yomichan reads my clipboard and searches my installed dictionaries for the Japanese words in the sentence, which I can read to understand the unknown word(s). I might then use AnkiConnect to create an automatic flashcard in Anki using my dictionary in Yomichan for the word I just learned to review later.

    I’m aware of gamescope; but I’m also aware that it’s basically a glorified hack to get something that plays along; generally I prefer if a game has builtin exclusive fullscreen as it still carries many advantages over using compositor hacks. (I haven’t really seen a good case not to use it besides the minor alt-tab annoyance)

    When I was playing the Sonohana games, the only resolution available to me was 800x600, and fullscreening it was horribly broken in WINE. It would also often crash the game when I switched virtual desktops. Since using Gamescope, those issues disappeared. Hack or not, I’m a fan.

    • Scraft161@iusearchlinux.fyi
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      1 year ago

      the only resolution available to me was 800x600, and fullscreening it was horribly broken in WINE.

      This is the exact reason I started using the AUR version as ONScripter’s exclusive fullscreen does not work in wine, I also played half of Tsukihime not realizing you could use 1, 2, and 3 on your numpad to change the text speed or change the game volume or even use page more (which is a delight during certain scenes).

      • Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.spaceM
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        1 year ago

        It’s nice when it works, but looking back at TRianThology, I’ve realized that the Linux build of ONScripter kept finding the wrong color profile for png files, and so the game flashes green constantly. It’s pretty unplayable. I could only get it to work by running the Windows build of ONScripter through WINE. And yeah, this was the AUR version with the two patches.

        And, unfortunately, the Sono Hana games don’t use the NScripter engine. I think they might use the KiriKiri2 engine?

        • Scraft161@iusearchlinux.fyi
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          1 year ago

          And, unfortunately, the Sono Hana games don’t use the NScripter engine. I think they might use the KiriKiri2 engine?

          could be depending on the period those games were released, KiriKiri is definitely an interesting beast as you can’t really interpret the KAG scripts directly as there are dozens of plugins that modify the things available in it due to the interpreter for it being written in TJS and that being interpreted by kirikiri. for F/SN I know of https://fatestaynight.vnovel.org/ but that uses an interpreter specifically written for it.

          What I can say is that you should be able to extract the .xp3 archives with AETools (I don’t know why; but this single program is a godsend for extracting VN assets).

          Another thing is KiriKiriSDL2 which is a port of KiriKiriZ to SDL2 with goals of supporting platforms such as linux and webassembly; but last I heard the project wasn’t ready for running games like Fate.

          • Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.spaceM
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            1 year ago

            fatestaynight.vnovel.org

            That’s pretty cool. I know next to nothing about engines (Ren’Py seems nice), so this was enlightening. I know a group rewrote several of the Sonohana games in Ren’Py while working on their translation so it would work cross-platform.

            AETools

            Is this what you’re referring to? It’s written in Pascal…! This is not promising:

            NOTE! Unfortunately, the build environment for AE is no longer functional, which prevents us from working on it. If you’d like to continue the development yourself, then feel free to grab the archived source code from the Downloads page.

            • Scraft161@iusearchlinux.fyi
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              1 year ago

              That’s pretty cool. I know next to nothing about engines (Ren’Py seems nice), so this was enlightening. I know a group rewrote several of the Sonohana games in Ren’Py while working on their translation so it would work cross-platform.

              Ren’Py is a really interesting beast as it aims to make things easier to develop for and is a really good cross-platform solution. It also is trivial to extract and modify and we can use the tools already on our system to do so, the downside to Ren’Py is that it is not nearly as flexible as kirikiri due to it’s nature (and it doesn’t need to be; most things are already baked in).

              I do like the fact that they ported the game to Ren’Py and I appreciate their effort to rewrite the game’s script, there’s very few groups that will ever go through that effort just because of the amount of work involved.

              Is this what you’re referring to? It’s written in Pascal…!

              yes, it’s a bit unsettling; but newer VN engines tend to use more common filetypes and AETools is written to deal with the older engines that just don’t have a lot of easily available tooling for them, especially on the extraction side. I haven’t seen any other extraction tools that work this well in wine and a lot of these older formats are archaic and tend to have very little in the way of documentation and even less in english (ONScripter only has this because of the VN translation community and KiriKiri has no good resources at all)

              • Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.spaceM
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                1 year ago

                I’ve been seeing a lot of Ren’Py games lately. All the Ren’Py games I’ve played feel nice, so I have no complaints. I think the very first Ren’Py game I played was Save the Date, which I really liked. The most recent one was The Expression Amrilato, another release from MangaGamer which has a native Linux build. The main Ren’Py developer is actually being funded quite sustainably, which is good to see.

                Are you a developer? You’ve got quite the encyclopedic knowledge on VN engines.

                I do like the fact that they ported the game to Ren’Py and I appreciate their effort to rewrite the game’s script, there’s very few groups that will ever go through that effort just because of the amount of work involved.

                It’s a crazy amount of effort, I imagine. These games are pretty short, though (~4 hours?). I don’t know exactly why they rewrote it in Ren’Py. It might have been for a cross-platform release, or it might have been to make it smoother, or for all or none of those reasons.

                What I can say is that you should be able to extract the .xp3 archives with AETools

                These Sono Hana games don’t have .xp3 archives, but Dracu-Riot does, so I do own a KiriKiri game. The SonoHana games have MGD and MSD files. I don’t know if this page or any others on this site would be interesting to you at all.

                yes, it’s a bit unsettling; but newer VN engines tend to use more common filetypes and AETools is written to deal with the older engines that just don’t have a lot of easily available tooling for them, especially on the extraction side. I haven’t seen any other extraction tools that work this well in wine and a lot of these older formats are archaic and tend to have very little in the way of documentation and even less in english (ONScripter only has this because of the VN translation community and KiriKiri has no good resources at all)

                I don’t know if this is something I can even approach right now. I wouldn’t know where to start. If I extract the .xp3 files with ae—then what? I admit this is all interesting at the very least.

                • Scraft161@iusearchlinux.fyi
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                  1 year ago

                  I’ve been seeing a lot of Ren’Py games lately.

                  Ren’Py has been consistently good and open so it just became the standard now (much like KiriKiri and NScripter before it), we might very well see it be replaced eventually; but I don’t think we’re going to get a competitor real soon doubly so when considering it has made western visual novels viable thanks to it’s great english documentation.

                  Are you a developer? You’ve got quite the encyclopedic knowledge on VN engines.

                  not professionally; but I do have quite a bit of knowledge and experience of poking at systems and hacking things together using whatever tools at my disposal, and when I started getting into visual novels (very much thanks to Fate) I wanted to know how it worked behind the scenes, I also had some technical knowledge at the time poking at Ren’Py a little; but that was of no help as Fate/Stay Night uses kirikiri and it’s archives were unextractable with the tools I had (which is how I stumbled across AETools)

                  It’s a crazy amount of effort, I imagine. These games are pretty short, though (~4 hours?).

                  4 hours is really short from what I’ve come to realize and I can’t imagine there are too many flags and branching paths to keep track of so it would be trivial compared to something like the original Tsukihime which has a script file of 4.5MiB (encoded in SHIFT_JIS so vim didn’t even know how to display half the characters) which has 5 routes, a whole bunch of branching paths and flags it keeps track of, and way to many dead ends you’ll run into without a guide because of a wrong choice you made half an hour ago and vndb lists it as 42 hours (those are some real fast readers).

                  The SonoHana games have MGD and MSD files. I don’t know if this page or any others on this site would be interesting to you at all.

                  I’d give it a shot with AETools first, unless it’s on a custom engine for those games specifically or something used for like 5 games in total it should work.

                  I don’t know if this is something I can even approach right now. I wouldn’t know where to start. If I extract the .xp3 files with ae—then what? I admit this is all interesting at the very least.

                  The .xp3 files are just archives, they contain various files and what those are and where they are depends on the game, Fate/Stay Night: Réalta Nua Ultimate Edition (A community version of the game patched with all sorts of goodies from various releases) has files to load assets from the PSVita release which are stored in their own archive. You’ll have to explore the extracted files yourself (I recommend doing so in whatever file manager you have as the AETools file preview sucks ass) you’ll quickly find the file structure though as it is made to make sense. The big thing I learned is that this is a process of trial and error (largely the latter for me) and when your approach doesn’t work out try a different angle and throw more stones at the window until you find the brick that breaks it.

                  • Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.spaceM
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                    1 year ago

                    Ren’Py has been consistently good and open so it just became the standard now (much like KiriKiri and NScripter before it), we might very well see it be replaced eventually; but I don’t think we’re going to get a competitor real soon doubly so when considering it has made western visual novels viable thanks to it’s great english documentation.

                    Personally, I don’t want to see Ren’Py replaced unless it’s by a better free software project. I think it’s good that a lot of VNs are being built on a free software engine today, and that the developer is able to make a living off doing development for it. It’s even better that it’s seeing adoption globally, not just in one region.

                    not professionally; but I do have quite a bit of knowledge and experience of poking at systems and hacking things together using whatever tools at my disposal, and when I started getting into visual novels (very much thanks to Fate) I wanted to know how it worked behind the scenes,

                    Fair enough. I’d say I’m much the same, but I probably don’t poke as deeply as you. Thank you for sharing this knowledge with me! Honestly, I’m sure I would have never come across it on my own. Reverse engineering is something I’m interested in but is going to take me a while to get any good at. This might be an interesting place to start.

                    4 hours is really short from what I’ve come to realize and I can’t imagine there are too many flags and branching paths to keep track of so it would be trivial compared to something like the original Tsukihime which has a script file of 4.5MiB (encoded in SHIFT_JIS so vim didn’t even know how to display half the characters) which has 5 routes, a whole bunch of branching paths and flags it keeps track of, and way to many dead ends you’ll run into without a guide because of a wrong choice you made half an hour ago and vndb lists it as 42 hours (those are some real fast readers).

                    Yeah, those games aren’t very complicated, and the routes are short. Or rather, they aren’t really routes. You get some alternative dialogue for a scene and that’s about it, at least for the earlier games. To be honest, I’m not a fan of VNs with a lot of routes. I’m mostly in it for the story, so I love Kinetic Novels like Higurashi and Umineko (though technically they’re a challenge to the player, so there is a ‘game’). I do want to play Tsukihime one day.

                    How do you even get SHIFT_JIS working in Vim/Neovim? Did you use an alternative editor? Or did you just install the SHIFT_JIS locale from Broken Dragon and run vim with LC_ALL=ja_JP.sjis?

                    I’d give it a shot with AETools first, unless it’s on a custom engine for those games specifically or something used for like 5 games in total it should work.

                    I initially delayed responding to you so I could get around to trying this out, but I haven’t gotten around to it. It’s got files like VOICE, MGD, MSD, BGM, DATA, and SE. No file extensions. VNDB hasn’t recorded the engine, so it doesn’t seem like anyone knows. Maybe I’ll find out.

                    The .xp3 files are just archives, they contain various files and what those are and where they are depends on the game, Fate/Stay Night: Réalta Nua Ultimate Edition (A community version of the game patched with all sorts of goodies from various releases) has files to load assets from the PSVita release which are stored in their own archive. You’ll have to explore the extracted files yourself (I recommend doing so in whatever file manager you have as the AETools file preview sucks ass) you’ll quickly find the file structure though as it is made to make sense. The big thing I learned is that this is a process of trial and error (largely the latter for me) and when your approach doesn’t work out try a different angle and throw more stones at the window until you find the brick that breaks it.

                    I generally use LF as a file manager, haha. But Nautilus would do, I’m sure. Thanks for all this. This is a pretty interesting conversation, so I’ve recorded the relevant bits into a document somewhere in case I have need of them later.