cross-posted from: https://sopuli.xyz/post/7147508
case 1 (buying a cheap gadget from outside Europe):
I ordered a rare gadget from the US which could not be obtained locally. It was only $10. It was inspected by customs (which IIUC is a random selection process). Customs deemed it worthless, likely because the low value was not worth the paperwork. But then Belgian post demanded a flat “clearance fee” of €10. The rationale is that #bPost wants extra compensation for their effort in managing customs on behalf of the recipient. If I were to refuse payment, bPost would have a right to keep the gadget or destroy it, and had no obligation to return it.
IIUC, I also had the option to fetch the package from the customs office myself and pay nothing. This was an undisclosed option - I only later learned about it via rumor. In hind sight, it would not have made a difference anyway because the customs warehouse is quite far from Brussels. So I paid the €10.
case 2 (a customs mess and lost gift):
In part because of case 1, I tell family outside of Europe to never send me gifts. I generally tell everyone not to send me gifts anyway because of my general objection consumerism. But mom would not hear it; sent me a gift anyway. She wanted it to be a surprise but of course that doesn’t fly with customs. So she did everything right as far as she knows - declared a value and listed the contents.
Normally I would expect to receive a pick-up slip from bPost. But this time customs sent a form asking me for a copy of the invoice and to list the contents and value. I replied saying it’s a gift, thus I have no invoice. I said for the same reason I don’t know the contents or value but that I was told that info was already disclosed on the package by the shipper. I supplied a phone number so they could reach me quicker.
Customs apparently simply ignored my response. I received no further correspondence and no pickup slip. Mom never received the package back either. It just disappeared. I told my mom she should at least demand a refund from USPS on the shipping costs, but she could not be bothered. I’m not sure if customs tried to call me (it was years ago). It’s quite possible that they called and did not speak English which would have effectively been a dead-end because I was not fluent in local languages.
case 3 (future gift):
Another family member really wants to send me a gift for some exceptional reason. I have no idea what it is but I plan to stand my ground and insist that it will be a disaster.
I’m posting this to ask if my facts are correct, or whether things have changed. So specifically:
- Is shipping into Europe still a random game of chance, whereby some packages simply get a pass and avoid both VAT and clearance fees?
- Is it possible for a sender to pay the VAT at the same time as paying for shipping and ensure there is no further VAT fees or clearance fees? (I heard that’s possible although I don’t think this was ever offered to people shipping things)
- Is the clearance fee from bPost still a flat €10?
- Is the clearance fee from UPS and/or FedEx still €13 plus a percentage of the value?
- Is it legal for customs to ignore correspondence? I would expect a developed system would require customs to respond one way or another to state what demands are unmet, and to give some kind of notice before or after taking some adverse action. If a response to them is lost, I would also expect customs to send a reminder saying they received no reply (in a civilized region).
- (amend) I heard a rumor that often if a VAT charge is levied, then the courier will often waive their clearance fee but if customs opts not to charge VAT then couriers are encouraged to impose their clearance fee to ensure that recipients have to pay something. Is this generally true? If yes, is it actually written policy?
I cannot speak for Belgium, but I am in the EU. Last year I tried out a subscription to a Japanese snack box (Sakuraco). The first few boxes arrived with no problem, but then one was held back by customs, requiring me to declare the price. As I paid for 3 months in advance, I only had an invoice for the price of 3 boxes together. I explained this on the form, and declared the price of one single box while giving them the rather large amount of documentation.
In response, they demanded I pay a fee that was close to the price of the box itself, likely calculating taxes on the price of 3 boxes rather than 1. I didn’t like it, but could not appeal and so paid it, hoping the next one would be let through like the first ones. Sadly, it seemed they made a note of this as the next 2 boxes also got held back. They must have found it profitable to do so.
The first one I declared entirely myself, as last time I’d let the local post service handle part of it. But to no avail, the tax again was close to the full price of the box. As I already found the price high for the amount you receive, I decided to just take the loss and not pay double price, and cancelled my subscription.
Anyway, in answer to your questions:
- It was last year for me, at least
- I’m not aware of this option, but it might exist
- Haven’t used bPost
- Not sure
- I’m not sure about the legality, but correspondence got ignored for me too. It seemed there was a strict bureaucratic process and no appeals possible
Just yesterday I recieved an order from AliExpress which was shipped from China to Switzerland. I honestly have no idea who handled VAT, customs or other fees. I just clicked “buy” in the shop and the package showed up a week later. That’s how it usually works in my exprience.
At least for the Netherlands… For orders under 150 €, VAT is paid directly when paying via AliExpress. If the total cost is >= 150 €, then customs is supposed to charge the VAT to the buyer directly. However, for this to happen the person shipping the order needs to report the value correctly on the package. Often sellers will report a lower than 150€ for the package, and customs lets it pass through without charging VAT as it should have already been paid.
Usually if you create an order from multiple shops and the total for the order is >= 150 €, the VAT is removed from the total order, but since the packages are often shipped separately by the different shops (except when AliExpress combines the shipping) none of the individual packages gets charged the VAT.
[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]
wtf happened?
I run a piece of software inspired by Mastodon’s automatic post deletes. It looks like some Fediverse servers aren’t accepting the delete requests, so placeholders end up getting left all over the place.
I’m not sure if this is a bug or if this is something servers are doing deliberately, I plan on checking back in a while and reporting bug reports if I can find out what’s causing the discrepancies.
I just recall your post was long with some useful info that I had not copied.
