Former President Barack Obama cautioned against ignoring the complexities of the Israel-Hamas war, warning that “all of us are complicit.”
“If you want to solve the problem, then you have to take in the whole truth. And you then have to admit nobody’s hands are clean, that all of us are complicit to some degree,” he said in an excerpted interview with Pod Save America released Saturday.
You seem to not understand what a proportionate response in war is. Israel’s goal is extermination of the terrorist threat in Gaza, their actions are proportional for those goals. Not lost in the calculation is the terrorists saying they intend on continuing their terror attacks on civilians, making a ceasefire all but impossible to institute.
The question of whether or not it’s humane or ethical is a different question that should be debated.
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Watch this My life as a Palestinian fighter - YouTube with a little bit critical of an eye and tell me what you think. This is supposed to be in favor of Palestinians, but what I get out of it is that the mother is proud of the son fighting and dying. What I get out of this is that many Gazans want the fighting to continue, but only when it’s their people fighting Israel. Who do you think put out this video? Do you think Israel is behind it? Or do you think it’s honestly made in favor of Palestine? What’s the purpose of this video and who made it?
How do you propose to kill everyone who is Hamas without killing any civilians?
In war, civilians always die. That’s just reality.
Callous and disgusting that you’d even try to justify that.
Again, how would you suggest they do it? Don’t avoid the question.
If this was World War 2, would you be saying that we shouldn’t kill any nazis if it causes civilian casualties? Nazis, like their Hamas associates, also used human shield tactics.
They have one of the most technologically sophisticated militaries in the world. You think they can’t minimize civilian casualties? The state of Israel is run by fascists who are building an ethnostate. They don’t care about Palestinians.
The cost of destroying Hamas isn’t worth intentionally targeting civilians. They’re blowing up HOSPITALS.
You didnt answer his question. Avoiding it does not make you more right than him.
I’m not answering the question because I’m not drawing the line at no civilians. It’s not my position so I’m not going to defend it.
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Where did I justify anything? I’m pointing out your ignorance is all.
Proportional in the context you’re using it doesn’t mean what you think it does.
You’re probably one of those people who says things like genocide when the population has doubled since 1950, or apartheid when Arabs serve in the IDF, sit as judges in the courts and hold seats in the parliament.
Tensions are high, spreading disinformation like you are doing is a problem that needs to be called out. Notice I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming you’re just ignorant and not doing this intentionally.
None of what I’ve said justifies the actions of anyone either. I’m simply pointing out that accuracy is important and you made a mistake.
You know that they’re are streets in Jerusalem that Palestinians are not even allowed to walk down, right? It’s an apartheid state.
Are those Palestinians is really citizens? There are 2 million Arab Israelis who have access to Israeli society. There are 2 million gazans who aren’t Israeli citizens who don’t want to be Israeli citizens. Therefore, they do not have the same rights as Israeli citizens.
Were the gazans given the opportunity to become Israeli?
Arabs living in Israel at the time were granted citizenship.
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Removed, keep it civil.
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It’s not, and if someone advocates genocide, that gets removed too. We want to encourage CONSTRUCTIVE debate. You can do that without ad hominem, I know you can because you just did. ;)
They don’t want to be Israeli because the Israel’s are an illegal occupying force that’s taking over their land.
Bro, you’re cherry picking your information and spreading colonial propaganda.
What is being cherry picked in @S_204’s post?
Proportionality is important in international law which is one of the reasons that the UN keeps calling out Israel for war crimes. Another cool fact in international law is that the threat to national security has to be imminent to strike into another country. They can’t just bomb in retaliation and say they are preventing future attacks.
Big Zionist misinformation here, population numbers going up can not disqualify acts from being genocidal. Also black people participated in South African society in the same way but no one would say SA wasn’t an apartheid state because a minority existed in the army or parliament.
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Oh so having thousands of armed forces destroying borders in a calculated coordinated attack including drones and rockets is not an army?
Read about Hamas. Learn that they’re a small army, coordinated and with levels of commands, platoons, and units.
Stop imagining Israel as being terrorists targeting civilians - they’re an army targeting terrorists who target civilians, and who’re hiding behind civilians for safety.
Are the cartels armies?
If a cartel attacks Mexico, should Mexico just bomb their entire city?
In some capacity yes.
That’s a different question entirety unrelated to if they’re armies or not. 1940s Japan certainly had an army, but did that justify nuking and firebombing cities?
This is nothing like Japan. This is like Vietnam where America invades a country it isn’t supposed to be and “self defences” all over the place
Okay, irrelevant, the Vietcong was also an army.
That’s the wrong question. The right question is if the mexican cartels started launching rockets and slaughtering the U.S.bordering Mexico - then what do you think would happen?
That isn’t even a question, it’s a tautology given how the US is fully supporting whatever Israel is doing.
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It’s fascinating that you’re capable of that kind of thinking with regard to Gaza and yet seem incapable of applying it to Israel, despite being just as relevant.
Ah yes let’s apply it to the side with rights, running water, food, the biggest military in the middle east, backed by the US, given free reign to commit war crimes by the west, deeply racist, most of the population have not lost family in the fight, has fortified bunkers in every house and have no fear of having their house bulldozed to make way for a stronger neighbours population.
It’s like there’s a historically sound reason for that or something…the events didn’t even happen that long ago.
Yes, because of the aforementioned large military. And maybe they haven’t lost someone in the particular fight (although it’s a rather asshole thing to even mention) this is not the first time Israel and other Jews have suffered casualties from surprise attacks.
You say that like it’s an indicator that they’re doing alright. How many people in your area feel the need to have fortified bunkers in in their homes to prevent them from being murdered by people living a few miles away? And how many of those people actually had to use those bunkers in the last month (like many Israelis just did)?
Its like there’s a historical correlation for large armies and fascist states.
But to counter your point, Taiwan keeps on shrinking their army and even dropped conscription despite the even bigger threat of China. They know the US will bail them out just like they would Israel in an all out war. Even looking at all the defending forces in Palestinian or defensive based armies around the world you don’t need a large or extremely well equipped army unless you are looking to invade am area.
Every surviving family or friend of someone killed is another person given reason to pick up weapons and fight. Every person who is under threat of starvation, physical violence and death is a person justified in their right to defend themselves. When there is a 36x difference in deaths and one side facing such brutality and oppression, the other side has no right to claim victim.
When one side has the psychological and physical safety of a bunker in their home and the other has to face the bombs without any protection it absolutely is an indicator that they are doing alright.
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The only reason a terrorist threat exists at all is that Israel has openly said they are trying to genocide Palestinians. Combined with the last 30 years of Apartheid they’ve already done.
How did this recent war start again?
75 years isn’t that recent
Mhm it’s almost like after 75 years there are generations that have been born on this land, and now are the locals.
So you’re for a 1 state solution with equal rights and a government ran by the majority like south Africa?
Sure, or a 10 state solution. Whatever, the number of states doesn’t matter.
I oppose absolute democracy. I would support a representative state with strong constitutional protections.
South Africa is a representative state dude
I know, I’m not even specifically talking about South Africa. I’m addressing the “ran by the majority” part.
By Israel running an apartheid state and committing countless war crimes against the people of Gaza. What is your point exactly?
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Do they though?
It’s people like you who are why more children will die. The savage thirst for the blood of Jews will lead to countless Palestinians dying.