• unfreeradical@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    That’s a disingenuous way to frame it.

    Regardless of your position, the question I asked seems entirely natural and fitting, and also straightforward, given the preceding context.

    Your response reveals you have innaccurately extrapolated one particular motive for the question.

    You have hinted toward a favorable solution to an agreed problem, yet you now antagonize someone, and return an evasion, simply for suggesting politely that you might elucidate your own position.

    There remains an unresolved tension in your argumentation thus far.

    You have agreed that problems for those who are disempowered are exacerbated by the conditions of one small group holding power.

    Yet, you have also tacitly defended, as the form of system you most prefer, a system in which one small group holds power.

    More, you have avoided offering any conception of how power itself may be reproduced by activity you regard as favorable.

    Under almost any system , those traits are somewhat advantageous when it comes to power

    I agree.

    For such reasons, as well as others, I would defend the assertion that problems for those who are disempowered are exacerbated by the conditions of one small group holding power.

    Very few if any other democracies…

    …when there’s almost none for those at the bottom.

    I can reach no understanding of how any of it is related to assuaging problems that have been exacerbated by conditions of one small group holding power.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yet, you have also tacitly defended, as the form of system you most prefer, a system in which one small group holds power.

      I’ve done no such thing. Which small group are you imagining I’m advocating for being in charge of everything?

      issues identified as consequent of one small group holding power.

      Identified by your own faulty logic. It’s extremely reductive to pretend that how many people have power is in itself the only problem rather than for example how that power is (ab)used and how little is done to hold those people accountable.

      The lack of social mobility for poor and otherwise marginalised people is one of the main reasons for the concentration of power. That and people like you ignoring any part of the problem that isn’t directly related to a tiny portion of the causality.

      I can reach no understanding of how any of it is

      Seems about true.

      • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        I’ve done no such thing. Which small group are you imagining I’m advocating for being in charge of everything?

        You clarified the various kinds of processes you consider as more versus less favorable for how individuals would enter into positions of power.

        If processes exist for how individuals may enter into positions of power, then the individuals who have entered into positions of power, by such processes, constitute a group who holds power over society, and that, compared to the whole mass of society, is small.

        Therefore, you have tacitly defended a system in which one small group holds power over the rest of society.

        It’s extremely reductive to pretend that how many…

        You are distorting my language, simply to make it assert what you feel inclined to negate.

        The challenge, which you have avoided, is to consider critically the benefit, if any, that one group having power over another confers to the group that is disempowered.


        There may be a more direct path toward identifying the essence of disagreement.

        Let’s make it simple.

        Considered abstractly, a system may take any one of three forms…

        1. One group holds power, and the group holding power exacerbates problems for those who are disempowered.
        2. One group holds power, and the group holding power does not exacerbate problems for those who are disempowered.
        3. Power is not held by a particular group.

        You seem to have implied two assertions…

        1. The preferred system is (2).
        2. Among those systems that are in fact possible is (2).

        Would you please justify one or both of the assertions that you seem to have insinuated?

        • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Let’s make it simple.

          No, let’s not. Oversimplification was your mistake from the start.

          A system may take one of three forms

          Ridiculous.

          Would you please justify one or both assertions?

          Nope, because I never claimed either thing. I’m not going to validate your strawman argument by acting as if it’s logically sound.

          • Cruxifux@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            You’re a more patient man than me. I would have stopped acknowledging that guy like two replies ago.

            • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              You say patient, I say impulse control issues making me bad at not replying when it’s clearly not worth the time and effort any more 😄

          • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            A system may take one of three forms

            Ridiculous.

            If so, then it should be trivial for you to show an alternative.

            Please do so.

            • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              No. You’re either not arguing in good faith or showing yourself incapable of appreciating vital complexities. Either way, it’s not worth my time and effort to continue down this road. Have the day you deserve.

              • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Is a good faith argument dismissing any idea with which you disagree, by invoking a single word, and then declining to provide the counterargument you have implied is trivial?

                Which vital complexity am I incapable of appreciating?

                Is a good faith argument a response based on an ad hominem?

                You are being immensely hypocritical.

                  • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Sure. Enjoy making yourself seem extremely clever simply by asserting yourself as the only one capable of “appreciating vital complexities”.