• TokenBoomer@lemmy.worldOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Obviously, all those other countries can’t read and didn’t know what they were voting on. Was it all an elaborate plan to make the US look bad on the world stage? Or maybe America just throws it’s weight around and does what it wants. Then, justifies it after the fact. Kind of like your comment. Basic stuff.

    • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      Obviously every country deserves the rights in the UN Charter except for Israel is closer to what you mean.

      • cfbundy@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        The bombing and forced migration of a captive civilian population is not self defense. It is the textbook definition of genocide.

        • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          How would you deal with Hamas? I know what you don’t want to do, but what would you do given Hamas uses human shields. Would you try to get those shields to move?

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            Maybe improve the the material conditions of the average Palestinian with an influx of money to make Hamas obsolete?

          • cfbundy@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            I would understand that Hamas is a symptom of the repression and poverty of Palestinians, and endeavour towards a diplomatic two state solution.

              • cfbundy@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Hamas and al Qaeda are not equivalent. One is the democratically represented governent of a people. However unpalatable their motives, they must be taken seriously, because they are the only game in town. Ignoring them, as Israel and the Western governments have, will lead them resorting to violence to be heard.

                Al Qaeda are fringe radicals committed to religious war. They will always choose violence, and there is no point negotiating with them.

                Conflating the two is a mistake, rooted in ignorance.

                  • cfbundy@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    More often than Palestinians have been able to vote for the Israeli leadership, i.e. never.

                    “Khaled Mashaal, its leader, has publicly affirmed the movement’s readiness to accept the borders of 1967. When Hamas won a majority in the 2006 Palestinian legislative election, Haniyeh, the then president-elect, sent messages both to George W. Bush and to Israel’s leaders, asking to be recognized and offering a long-term truce (hudna), along the 1967 border lines. No response came.”

                    “In November 2011, Hamas leader Khaled Mishal made an agreement with Mahmoud Abbas in Cairo, in which he committed to respecting the 1967 borders.”

                    "In February 2012, according to the Palestinian authority, Hamas forswore the use of violence. Evidence for this was provided by an eruption of violence from Islamic Jihad in March 2012 after an Israeli assassination of a Jihad leader, during which Hamas refrained from attacking Israel. “Israel—despite its mantra that because Hamas is sovereign in Gaza it is responsible for what goes on there—almost seems to understand,” wrote Israeli journalists Avi Issacharoff and Amos Harel, “and has not bombed Hamas offices or installations”.

                    (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)

                    Of course there should be more elections in Palestine. But there should be a Palestine first, something that Israel’s actions are not facilitating.

            • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              The article refers to Article 51 of the UN charter, which I quoted. You don’t seem to think it matters. To member nations of the UN it matters very much. Why wasn’t article 51 included? Because it is a right denied by those that wrote theproposal.

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.worldOP
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                I get what you’re saying now. And I think it wasn’t included because the resolution deals with humanitarian aid not _self defense _ . The fact that it wasn’t included is just an excuse for the US to vote no. Why didn’t the US introduce a new resolution with that language included? Because it gives them plausible deniability.

                • Rapidcreek@reddthat.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  It doesn’t work that way. You can’t ask for a pause once Article 51 is invoked, and it was. It’s not up to the US to write proper declarations for others. I don’t see them denying anything, they in essence vetoed it.

                  • cfbundy@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Your crybully appeals to procedure are deeply unserious. The US have obviously vetoed a humanitarian measure intended to help over a million civilians.

                • livus@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  @TokenBoomer I agree with this. As well as being a bit off topic, quoting chapter and verse of the UN charter in every resolution would be redundant.

                  It’s already in the charter.

                  It’s not normally a requisite for resolutions and making it an excuse not to sign seems disingenuous to me.