She is just standard pop music. She has a few strong qualities that make her fans more devoted than your typical pop star.
First, she writes a lot of her own music. The lyrics, the stories, they are personal explorations. Fans feel closer to her because of the perceived intimacy and shared experiences. Her songs are often about her own flaws, her vulnerabilities and insecurities, and that humanizes her in a way that doesn’t happen with most pop singers.
The second is that she’s had a prolific career. She’s been writing and performing chart-topping hits for nearly 20 years, and shows no signs of slowing down. Her catalogue is deep and varied in both style and content, and yet because it is personal, it is all distinctly associated with her. Whether it’s bubblegum country, moody introspective electronica, dance hall woo-girl sing-alongs, or just a straight torch song about a bad breakup, her music is consistently high quality music without being stale or repetitive. And when she performs, it’s her best work. She’s obviously having fun, giving it her all, and connecting with the crowd.
Yes, it’s pop music. But it’s good pop music, crafted and performed by a professional who cares about the quality. It’s not manufactured, artificially sweetened one-hits assembled in a lab by marketing gurus. I’m sure there’s some of that, but she wouldn’t have made it this far if she weren’t the genuine article.
But “this artist writes most of their own music”…is literally the least we can expect from an artist.
I guess that’s just your point though. She does just make regular ass pop music, which is engineered to be an ear worm. Coupled with the fact that she’s this larger-than-life star and looks flawless and has every single person pumping this image, we wouldn’t expect her to put any effort in because she has this all at her feet. But because she is already on that plane of stardom AND expresses actual stuff in her music, the celebrity machine basically made it otherworldly that she can be this famous while actually revealing things about herself.
Is that what you’re saying? That’s how I took it. Because you said she’s just standard pop music. But the fact that she is such a star and is as large of a public figure as she is, being at all personal in her music was like a key when you reach that level to pure obsession. Because we have this weird celebrity culture, and when they get that high, we expect just a face and an image, but she’s the first one to use the key to be personal and share things that turn that megastar celebrity status into the obsession we see, because she “lets people in” by writing things that actually have to do with her as a person.
Hardly any pop stars write their own songs. Frank Sinatra wrote exactly one song, and if anybody knows it, it’s because they know it as the one song he wrote. It would be far easier to list the pop stars who did write their own music, because it’s like the Beatles, Prince, and Lady Gaga. Taylor Swift, for what it’s worth, writes lyrics and collaborates on the tune, so I wouldn’t even put her in that list with the others I mentioned. I’m sure there are a few big ones I’m missing.
You asked why she’s so big right now. She’s big because people enjoy her music and feel a personal connection with her. It’s not that complicated. You understand “pop” is short for “popular” right? The music is catchy, and she is likeable for all the aformentioned reasons.
As for celebrity culture and the unhealthy obsession with fame, that’s not new. Swift is just currently at the top of the pyramid.
If that’s what you’re saying, then yes, we’re saying the same thing.
While you didn’t explicitly say it pop music and especially female created pop music is typically written off in general. The idea that since its popular means its dumb and simple. Moreover if its written by a woman its automatically “chick” music which some gatekeepers of music will automatically write off. (See the founder of Rolling Stones recent scandal about his book on Rock Music). It doesn’t help that Taylor Swift’s radio hits are usually her simplest bubblegum pop hits. These songs in my opinion are the worst on her albums. [I am thinking “Shake it Off” from 1989 and “ME!” from Lover as the best examples]
The reason people like Taylor Swift is that she is a great story teller in her song writing. She usually writes about her life which lets people see her personal life. Especially, if you know about her life from the tabloids where you can connect dots from lyrics to her breakups, boyfriends etc. However, I feel they stand along from that because they can tell an entire story within a song. These start simple in her first albums and as her craft grew the themes and stories get more complex with it.
Most importantly is that since she has been prolific for so long those who are the same age as her have been fans their whole life. This means her albums follow your life experiences and were released when you were going through that stage. People love 1989 since it was about their early twenties and was released then, so you can listen now and be nostalgic about that time since it captured that experience so well. This happens if you were a fan at that time or not, but especially if you were. With her Eras tour they played from all her albums so its like seeing a concert of your life if you have been a fan for ages.
This doesn’t even get into the marketing which she has been great with. Re-releasing albums in order to own them instead of a record label was genius. Since she was upfront about it people didn’t see it as a soulless money grab but rather a reclaiming of art. While people hate out of touch pop stars they really hate out of touch record executives. She painted herself as the hero of this story because she was honest and upfront about why and how she was doing this. It also helps that the Taylor’s Version are just as good if not better than the original and releasing new songs never hurts
I’m by no means a TS fan but I saw the tour movie with my partner, who is a big fan, over the weekend. Overall, it’s just super-well produced pop music, which is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it sounds very sterile and inoffensive. On the other hand though, when that much resources and manpower go into any type of music, its almost impossible for it to sound objectively bad. Taylor Swift seems like a nice enough person, too.
I dunno. I mean, I guess it’s a matter of taste. But when I hear over produced pop music, it’s very grating for me. It’s like sickeningly…I don’t know how to describe it. Sweetness tastes as close to any taste can be “objectively” good, I guess. But pop music to me—modern pop music, really anything after mid 90s/2000–sounds so hooky and scientifically melodic that it’s like putting an entire handful of refined sugar in your gullet. Like, yeah, it technically is sweet, but it’s so overpowering that it’s disgusting.
If that makes sense. When I hear that basic pop structure that is literally manufactured to all be similar, it’s like nails on a chalkboard for me. I feel it in my gut that I don’t like it. It sounds like a bucket full of sugar, in a sickening way.
It’s very hard for me to get it across, but it actually is a physical feeling in my upper stomach/shoulders. It’s a physical response, and maybe it was an adopted response from when I was a kid/teenager growing up in the 90s/2000s, but the stuff today only hits that button harder and my body actually responds.
Its definitely a matter of taste. You’re absolutely allowed to not like a cake because it’s too sweet. You’re allowed to be sickened by it. Where the discourse gets frustrating is when people find it impossible that others don’t find it sickening, and try to convince others that it is unequivocally sickening.
If you have such a visceral reaction… why are you asking people to explain it? Are you listening to the answers and reflecting, or taking the opportunity to speak past their response?
I mean, as a music fan, I have friends whose taste I otherwise respect and that intersect with mine on almost everything else swear up and down that I need to give her another shot. No one’s ever given me reasons other than the boilerplate stuff, so I wanted a bigger pool of opinions. I can find appreciation for something when I understand it better—I wanted to see if anyone had any real point to be made. I’m open to respecting the music for having quality even if it’s not my cup of tea. Everyone finds a lot of quality in her stuff, and I wanted to see if it went beyond the basic, “it’s great pop music, she writes it herself” answer I always get.
Someone elsewhere itt sort of gave me an answer that made sense; that coupled with her enormous celebrity status, the personal insight into that strata through exposing herself emotionally gives people this sense of something incredibly special, and that gave me an angle on the issue I hadn’t really considered. It makes sense. I just find a huge cross section of people who aren’t just pop fans listening to whatever is on the radio/popular/presented to them, but like true musician/musicos who hold her in high esteem. It’s curious, I’m trying to kinda parse what’s at the root of this phenomenon. It’s dumb, but I like to talk about it
I never got Taylor swift. Can anyone explain to me why she isn’t just standard pop music?
She is just standard pop music. She has a few strong qualities that make her fans more devoted than your typical pop star.
First, she writes a lot of her own music. The lyrics, the stories, they are personal explorations. Fans feel closer to her because of the perceived intimacy and shared experiences. Her songs are often about her own flaws, her vulnerabilities and insecurities, and that humanizes her in a way that doesn’t happen with most pop singers.
The second is that she’s had a prolific career. She’s been writing and performing chart-topping hits for nearly 20 years, and shows no signs of slowing down. Her catalogue is deep and varied in both style and content, and yet because it is personal, it is all distinctly associated with her. Whether it’s bubblegum country, moody introspective electronica, dance hall woo-girl sing-alongs, or just a straight torch song about a bad breakup, her music is consistently high quality music without being stale or repetitive. And when she performs, it’s her best work. She’s obviously having fun, giving it her all, and connecting with the crowd.
Yes, it’s pop music. But it’s good pop music, crafted and performed by a professional who cares about the quality. It’s not manufactured, artificially sweetened one-hits assembled in a lab by marketing gurus. I’m sure there’s some of that, but she wouldn’t have made it this far if she weren’t the genuine article.
not just pop - her older albums were country/pop with rock influence, which imo was great
But “this artist writes most of their own music”…is literally the least we can expect from an artist.
I guess that’s just your point though. She does just make regular ass pop music, which is engineered to be an ear worm. Coupled with the fact that she’s this larger-than-life star and looks flawless and has every single person pumping this image, we wouldn’t expect her to put any effort in because she has this all at her feet. But because she is already on that plane of stardom AND expresses actual stuff in her music, the celebrity machine basically made it otherworldly that she can be this famous while actually revealing things about herself.
Is that what you’re saying? That’s how I took it. Because you said she’s just standard pop music. But the fact that she is such a star and is as large of a public figure as she is, being at all personal in her music was like a key when you reach that level to pure obsession. Because we have this weird celebrity culture, and when they get that high, we expect just a face and an image, but she’s the first one to use the key to be personal and share things that turn that megastar celebrity status into the obsession we see, because she “lets people in” by writing things that actually have to do with her as a person.
Are we saying the same thing?
Hardly any pop stars write their own songs. Frank Sinatra wrote exactly one song, and if anybody knows it, it’s because they know it as the one song he wrote. It would be far easier to list the pop stars who did write their own music, because it’s like the Beatles, Prince, and Lady Gaga. Taylor Swift, for what it’s worth, writes lyrics and collaborates on the tune, so I wouldn’t even put her in that list with the others I mentioned. I’m sure there are a few big ones I’m missing.
You asked why she’s so big right now. She’s big because people enjoy her music and feel a personal connection with her. It’s not that complicated. You understand “pop” is short for “popular” right? The music is catchy, and she is likeable for all the aformentioned reasons.
As for celebrity culture and the unhealthy obsession with fame, that’s not new. Swift is just currently at the top of the pyramid.
If that’s what you’re saying, then yes, we’re saying the same thing.
While you didn’t explicitly say it pop music and especially female created pop music is typically written off in general. The idea that since its popular means its dumb and simple. Moreover if its written by a woman its automatically “chick” music which some gatekeepers of music will automatically write off. (See the founder of Rolling Stones recent scandal about his book on Rock Music). It doesn’t help that Taylor Swift’s radio hits are usually her simplest bubblegum pop hits. These songs in my opinion are the worst on her albums. [I am thinking “Shake it Off” from 1989 and “ME!” from Lover as the best examples]
The reason people like Taylor Swift is that she is a great story teller in her song writing. She usually writes about her life which lets people see her personal life. Especially, if you know about her life from the tabloids where you can connect dots from lyrics to her breakups, boyfriends etc. However, I feel they stand along from that because they can tell an entire story within a song. These start simple in her first albums and as her craft grew the themes and stories get more complex with it.
Most importantly is that since she has been prolific for so long those who are the same age as her have been fans their whole life. This means her albums follow your life experiences and were released when you were going through that stage. People love 1989 since it was about their early twenties and was released then, so you can listen now and be nostalgic about that time since it captured that experience so well. This happens if you were a fan at that time or not, but especially if you were. With her Eras tour they played from all her albums so its like seeing a concert of your life if you have been a fan for ages.
This doesn’t even get into the marketing which she has been great with. Re-releasing albums in order to own them instead of a record label was genius. Since she was upfront about it people didn’t see it as a soulless money grab but rather a reclaiming of art. While people hate out of touch pop stars they really hate out of touch record executives. She painted herself as the hero of this story because she was honest and upfront about why and how she was doing this. It also helps that the Taylor’s Version are just as good if not better than the original and releasing new songs never hurts
I’m by no means a TS fan but I saw the tour movie with my partner, who is a big fan, over the weekend. Overall, it’s just super-well produced pop music, which is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it sounds very sterile and inoffensive. On the other hand though, when that much resources and manpower go into any type of music, its almost impossible for it to sound objectively bad. Taylor Swift seems like a nice enough person, too.
I dunno. I mean, I guess it’s a matter of taste. But when I hear over produced pop music, it’s very grating for me. It’s like sickeningly…I don’t know how to describe it. Sweetness tastes as close to any taste can be “objectively” good, I guess. But pop music to me—modern pop music, really anything after mid 90s/2000–sounds so hooky and scientifically melodic that it’s like putting an entire handful of refined sugar in your gullet. Like, yeah, it technically is sweet, but it’s so overpowering that it’s disgusting.
If that makes sense. When I hear that basic pop structure that is literally manufactured to all be similar, it’s like nails on a chalkboard for me. I feel it in my gut that I don’t like it. It sounds like a bucket full of sugar, in a sickening way.
It’s very hard for me to get it across, but it actually is a physical feeling in my upper stomach/shoulders. It’s a physical response, and maybe it was an adopted response from when I was a kid/teenager growing up in the 90s/2000s, but the stuff today only hits that button harder and my body actually responds.
Its definitely a matter of taste. You’re absolutely allowed to not like a cake because it’s too sweet. You’re allowed to be sickened by it. Where the discourse gets frustrating is when people find it impossible that others don’t find it sickening, and try to convince others that it is unequivocally sickening.
If you have such a visceral reaction… why are you asking people to explain it? Are you listening to the answers and reflecting, or taking the opportunity to speak past their response?
I mean, as a music fan, I have friends whose taste I otherwise respect and that intersect with mine on almost everything else swear up and down that I need to give her another shot. No one’s ever given me reasons other than the boilerplate stuff, so I wanted a bigger pool of opinions. I can find appreciation for something when I understand it better—I wanted to see if anyone had any real point to be made. I’m open to respecting the music for having quality even if it’s not my cup of tea. Everyone finds a lot of quality in her stuff, and I wanted to see if it went beyond the basic, “it’s great pop music, she writes it herself” answer I always get.
Someone elsewhere itt sort of gave me an answer that made sense; that coupled with her enormous celebrity status, the personal insight into that strata through exposing herself emotionally gives people this sense of something incredibly special, and that gave me an angle on the issue I hadn’t really considered. It makes sense. I just find a huge cross section of people who aren’t just pop fans listening to whatever is on the radio/popular/presented to them, but like true musician/musicos who hold her in high esteem. It’s curious, I’m trying to kinda parse what’s at the root of this phenomenon. It’s dumb, but I like to talk about it