That’s literally what it is. It’s people who want humanity to die out, but without suicide, war, or murder, but instead merely by not reproducing. I’ve seen their communities and it pretty much comes back to misanthropy— hating humanity.
You’re not wrong, but there’s a kind of irony in it when you talk about ending humanity because of it.
There’s a lot to hate about humanity if you have humanity and have human values.
There’s nothing objectively wrong about being cruel or destructive or dishonest or greedy or abusive or murderous and I imagine most hypothetical alien species would look at those things and say “what’s wrong with any of that?”
But because humans evolved as social creatures and our survival depended upon trusting one another, we’re constantly trying to judge ourselves against values that can’t actually be met.
So we look at ourselves and say we’re a really horrible species, but that statement only makes sense because ironically we’re a really glorious species that’s fabricated these completely irrational things like love and compassion and empathy and honesty and sacrifice that no other species has (though many other social species do have bits and pieces of them).
And we’ll forever hate ourselves for not being able to live up to our own values.
A large amount of my outlook revolves around the notion that once you can forgive ANY human for existing, the justifications for holding much of anything against(or mistreating) any but a select (relatively)few just melt away and indulging in the notion that I myself am exceptionally horrible (self-loathing) is just vanity.
I honestly don’t get how someone can come to the conclusion that ending humanity is absolutely desirable and not just skip to the step of ending themselves. That’s surrendering the high ground at step one, and just because I believe they deserve to draw breath more than they do doesn’t mean I won’t block anyone who openly subscribes to such ideals in a heartbeat.
We got here by being horrible. I’ll believe any other intelligent(or otherwise) life got so far without similar skeletons in their closets when I see it. Not them or anyone else claiming it, but like, a god’s-eye-view of their entire history. Pretending we can’t get over it is just an excuse for further horrors.
Yeah, it’s a death cult through and through. I get some people chose to be child free, but people relate themselves as anti-natalism ain’t just about that.
I’m not exactly antinatalist, but I’m somewhat sympathetic to their position. The way I see it is this: humanity’s effect on nature is on the average, harmful.
We’ve been very successful as a species, but at the cost of a lot of others that weren’t able to cope with our success. Perhaps some species which are useful to us—sometimes just by being cute, have learned to live with us, or have learned to live despite us, have managed to thrive. But for one species that gained our protection, how many others have disappeared with no one caring?
If that’s not bad enough, I don’t think that the average individual human being is thriving. We’ve destroyed a lot only to build depressing cubicles for us to rot in.
I don’t think it’s worth it.
Having a child means condemning them into an ever worsening world. And I don’t think I’ll be able to properly equip my child to even have a smidge of a chance of being “well-off”, healthy or even happy.
However, our innate instincts, as well as societal and other pressures pushes people to have children even when it’s not going to end well for the children as well as their parents. Antinatalism is a counterbalance to this pressure.
Is it more depressing than humans killing everything in sight including a whole damn planet with no control over their greed?
What would you say if there was a bug that is able to live almost anywhere on earth, destroying the nearby environment and making animals go extinct, poisoning the water, sky, soil, leaving trash that’s radioactive, poison filled or very hard to degrade, while killing each other for profit and doing imaginably dark and amoral things?
We kill insects for doing a lot less. Yet when it comes to us, we’re free to harm everything and everyone, and when someone says “we should destroy this species, they’re dangerous!” They’re therapy worthy.
I think what’s therapy worthy is not being aware of even a fraction of the dark shit that goes on in the world and being content because their bubble holds up just fine and that’s all that matters. Its delusion of grandeur experienced by a whole species. Anyone who says otherwise is ridiculed and treated like they’re ill. Isn’t that convenient
I would argue that the problem you are pointing out is cultural rather than biological. Humans are very well capable of living sustainably and respectfully and have done so for extended periods of times in different regions of the world. The endless consumtion of an ending earth seems like something that developed together with (e.g. western, capitalist, …) culture and ideology.
We need to work on changing our collective mindset rather than attempt our own disappearance.
Second part of argument: I believe we can. Humans are very capable to adapt and change. Not sure about collectives, but if you think you can convice a critical number of people to stop reproducing, I think you can do the same in convincing us to please fix our shit.
Right or wrong is beside the point. Therapy is about emotional balance and well-being. I sincerely hope you’re well but these kinds of rants often come across as personal anger being projected on topic x. I don’t doubt that’s how you see the world around you at the moment but not everyone does and that doesn’t mean they’re wrong, blind or stupid. Some people can see the same atrocious state you see and counterbalance it with the good they can also see around them. Being aware of our species wrong-doings is as important as becoming sensitive to its virtues. If someone can’t see any virtues at all, to the point they advocate death, they’re more likely either insensitive or have been handed a very rough hand in life. Therapy can help in any of those cases.
That community had it’s place. Sadly the one on reddit became toxic over time.
Perhaps on Lemmy these topics can be discussed by adults without it turning into a dumpster fire.
I’m sure that is gonna end well
I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not. If yes, any reason why?
The general vibe around r/childfree on reddit wasn’t a positive one
“Child free” just sounds like people who don’t want kids. “Anti-natalism” sounds like people who don’t want kids to exist at all.
That’s literally what it is. It’s people who want humanity to die out, but without suicide, war, or murder, but instead merely by not reproducing. I’ve seen their communities and it pretty much comes back to misanthropy— hating humanity.
Tbf, there is a fair amount about humanity to hate.
You’re not wrong, but there’s a kind of irony in it when you talk about ending humanity because of it. There’s a lot to hate about humanity if you have humanity and have human values. There’s nothing objectively wrong about being cruel or destructive or dishonest or greedy or abusive or murderous and I imagine most hypothetical alien species would look at those things and say “what’s wrong with any of that?”
But because humans evolved as social creatures and our survival depended upon trusting one another, we’re constantly trying to judge ourselves against values that can’t actually be met. So we look at ourselves and say we’re a really horrible species, but that statement only makes sense because ironically we’re a really glorious species that’s fabricated these completely irrational things like love and compassion and empathy and honesty and sacrifice that no other species has (though many other social species do have bits and pieces of them).
And we’ll forever hate ourselves for not being able to live up to our own values.
A large amount of my outlook revolves around the notion that once you can forgive ANY human for existing, the justifications for holding much of anything against(or mistreating) any but a select (relatively)few just melt away and indulging in the notion that I myself am exceptionally horrible (self-loathing) is just vanity.
I honestly don’t get how someone can come to the conclusion that ending humanity is absolutely desirable and not just skip to the step of ending themselves. That’s surrendering the high ground at step one, and just because I believe they deserve to draw breath more than they do doesn’t mean I won’t block anyone who openly subscribes to such ideals in a heartbeat.
We got here by being horrible. I’ll believe any other intelligent(or otherwise) life got so far without similar skeletons in their closets when I see it. Not them or anyone else claiming it, but like, a god’s-eye-view of their entire history. Pretending we can’t get over it is just an excuse for further horrors.
Already happened. Anti-natalism is toxic af regardless where it is, and i’ve already seen people doing just that here in Lemmy.
I mean, wanting humanity to die out is such a depressing thing to think. If you want that, you need therapy
Yeah, it’s a death cult through and through. I get some people chose to be child free, but people relate themselves as anti-natalism ain’t just about that.
I’m not exactly antinatalist, but I’m somewhat sympathetic to their position. The way I see it is this: humanity’s effect on nature is on the average, harmful.
We’ve been very successful as a species, but at the cost of a lot of others that weren’t able to cope with our success. Perhaps some species which are useful to us—sometimes just by being cute, have learned to live with us, or have learned to live despite us, have managed to thrive. But for one species that gained our protection, how many others have disappeared with no one caring?
If that’s not bad enough, I don’t think that the average individual human being is thriving. We’ve destroyed a lot only to build depressing cubicles for us to rot in.
I don’t think it’s worth it.
Having a child means condemning them into an ever worsening world. And I don’t think I’ll be able to properly equip my child to even have a smidge of a chance of being “well-off”, healthy or even happy.
However, our innate instincts, as well as societal and other pressures pushes people to have children even when it’s not going to end well for the children as well as their parents. Antinatalism is a counterbalance to this pressure.
If you think deathcult is a counterbalance to the world then i think you need to see a therapy for that. What is this, Attack on Titan?
I tried to give you an overview of how someone might be sympathetic to their views, but I should have known that you’re not receptive to such.
And yeah, if you give me money for the expenses needed for that all-curing therapy, sure, why not? However, you might need that for yourself.
Is it more depressing than humans killing everything in sight including a whole damn planet with no control over their greed?
What would you say if there was a bug that is able to live almost anywhere on earth, destroying the nearby environment and making animals go extinct, poisoning the water, sky, soil, leaving trash that’s radioactive, poison filled or very hard to degrade, while killing each other for profit and doing imaginably dark and amoral things?
We kill insects for doing a lot less. Yet when it comes to us, we’re free to harm everything and everyone, and when someone says “we should destroy this species, they’re dangerous!” They’re therapy worthy.
I think what’s therapy worthy is not being aware of even a fraction of the dark shit that goes on in the world and being content because their bubble holds up just fine and that’s all that matters. Its delusion of grandeur experienced by a whole species. Anyone who says otherwise is ridiculed and treated like they’re ill. Isn’t that convenient
I would argue that the problem you are pointing out is cultural rather than biological. Humans are very well capable of living sustainably and respectfully and have done so for extended periods of times in different regions of the world. The endless consumtion of an ending earth seems like something that developed together with (e.g. western, capitalist, …) culture and ideology.
We need to work on changing our collective mindset rather than attempt our own disappearance. Second part of argument: I believe we can. Humans are very capable to adapt and change. Not sure about collectives, but if you think you can convice a critical number of people to stop reproducing, I think you can do the same in convincing us to please fix our shit.
TBH that rant did very little to disprove therapy might be in order
What part of what I said is wrong, exactly?
Right or wrong is beside the point. Therapy is about emotional balance and well-being. I sincerely hope you’re well but these kinds of rants often come across as personal anger being projected on topic x. I don’t doubt that’s how you see the world around you at the moment but not everyone does and that doesn’t mean they’re wrong, blind or stupid. Some people can see the same atrocious state you see and counterbalance it with the good they can also see around them. Being aware of our species wrong-doings is as important as becoming sensitive to its virtues. If someone can’t see any virtues at all, to the point they advocate death, they’re more likely either insensitive or have been handed a very rough hand in life. Therapy can help in any of those cases.
That’s because humans should look out for other humans and value our own species the most. That’s our obligation.
That community had it’s place. Sadly the one on reddit became toxic over time. Perhaps on Lemmy these topics can be discussed by adults without it turning into a dumpster fire.