• Square Singer@feddit.de
    512·
    1 year ago

    However, there is something nice about knowing a balanced way to do x or y across the board and at different tables.

    I don’t agree with this argument. Balancing is the job of the GM. Unless the GM acts as a glorified screenreader who only reads a pre-made adventure to the players with no influence what happens. But if the GM decides what monsters you run into, the GM has more influence over the balancing than the game framework. So why not lean into it fully and make the GM responsible for the whole balancing?

    I mean, pen&paper RPGs aren’t a players vs GM game, but instead the GM plays together with the players to create an interesting experience where everyone has fun. No need for the framework to do balancing, because a good GM will do that.

    • PoTayToes@sh.itjust.works
      14·
      1 year ago

      So why not lean into it fully and make the GM responsible for the whole balancing?

      Because having things balanced properly in regard to the myriad options that are possible in people imaginations is hard, especially related to combat. Improper balacing leads to people having a bad time, while having an established, fair ruleset lets the DM and the players focus on other things.

      No need for the framework to do balancing, because a good GM will do that.

      But at this point why even have rules? A “good GM” can just entirely improvise a system.

      • TheGreatDarkness@ttrpg.networkOP
        21·
        1 year ago

        But at this point why even have rules? A “good GM” can just entirely improvise a system. On the other hand,. if you’re the slave to rules, are you even still the GM or just a refferee? It’s a sliding scale people fall on, honestly. 5e tried to have it cake and eat it too, insert itself in the middle. You could argue it succeeded, but that makes people naturally drift away from it in either direction. I just think we tend to forget the scale goes both ways and there are more options than Pathfinder with rules for everything.

        • iAmTheTot@kbin.social
          41·
          1 year ago

          You sound like you’re trying to say that GMs who run modules by the book aren’t real GMs, and that’s some gatekeepy bullshit.

    • hukumka@lemmy.ml
      9·
      1 year ago

      While GM decides what monsters to throw into players, they still need to know what they could use without it being either underwhelming or overwhelming. You dismiss this simply by saying: “just be a good DM”.

      • New DM’s will want guidelines to start from.
      • If combat is important having written rules help to use consistent ruling on same situation in different instances.
      • Story focused DM might reduce amount of effort needed to plan combat, since there is no need to build it from scratch.

      Disadvantage of having to look up rules then you don’t remember them could be mitigated by just saying: Look guys, I don’t remember ruling now, so not to break the flow, I will rule it this way, and look it up later.

      So while for most players rule heavy systems are less accessible, they are actually more accessible for many DMs, and since mastering have much higher barrier of entry, such systems at least should not be dismissed outright.

    • Horst_Voller@feddit.de
      81·
      1 year ago

      Balancing is the job of the GM.

      And some systems make that job easier for the GM than other systems. Winning all the time without challenge is boring. Getting TPKd every other session does not feel good. A good GM should hit somewhere in-between. So you either have a system that helps you do that or you really need to have a lot of experience.

    • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.eeEnglish
      3·
      1 year ago

      So why not lean into it fully and make the GM responsible for the whole balancing

      Because they should have fun too? Having to rule and improvise everything makes for a harder job for them, needing to keep track of everything to make it consistent, and it’s also bad for players too, since they don’t really know what to expect.

    • Skabb@lemmy.world
      1·
      1 year ago

      But if you have the tools that tell you how to make differently balanced encounters, it makes the job of balancing the game waaaay easier.

    • Pyro@pawb.socialEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      The framework helps the GM be able to do so, its another tool.

      I mainly say that in such a way that if a character is thought to be a pusher the player would know that to push I have to be this close and cant push something thats x times bigger (or some other thing). A GM can (and should) adjust and change things if it would make it more fun for the table but the framework helps understand the world better. for some parts the GM is not directing but explaining what happened.

      I push the rock off the edge of the cliff, bar something else, it should fall. The GM at that point is giving the results of that action, what is the result? the GM could simply say that it fell and hurt someone it landed on nearly killing them. the issue comes when the same situation comes up and the GM does something different because they think it should do differently (a different GM more then likely ) this breaks flow if things are different. (assuming all things are the same in both situations for simplicity of course). The Frame work put that a rock fall would deal X amount for how far it fell and the players would have the knowledge (while it would be slightly meta, it would be a “world” known if the rock would deal less damage then the pointy sword XP )

      That’s what I meant by balance across areas, expectations are known on what some cause and effects are. Frameworks are great ways to help guide things through HOWEVER, a giving framework/gamesystem is not perfect nor a fit all for all game types and tables. A Group also shouldn’t need to “go into the weeds” constantly (or at all during a session), something made on the fly or close enough is good to keep things moving.

      I mean, pen&paper RPGs aren’t a players vs GM game, but instead the GM plays together with the players to create an interesting experience where everyone has fun.

      Full Agree, but the next part is that the Framework helps the GM do the balancing