The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.
An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he’s in isn’t accommodating his vegan diet.
It’s interesting to me to meet someone wholly anti jail. I think our “justice system” is anything but, and at least that’s partially because we have a completely muddled idea about what we’re even trying to accomplish - mostly because of all these different opinions.
It seems pretty clear that our jails are “technically” just this side of cruel and unusual punishment as defined by our courts. But it’s all about punishment. Of course this assumes that retribution is a useful goal, and as you point out - it probably isn’t.
It’s also dubious that there’s any deterrence effect from jail sentences. Lots of people believe there is, but the studies I’ve seen don’t bear that out.
It’s also pretty clear that jail is expensive and just as likely to make criminals worse rather than better, so from a societal perspective, there’s a really good reason to re-think our justice system.
However, given our current system is about punishment and making victims and society at large feel better because “those who fucked around found out” - I would still prefer to see this guy get his to remind people we do in fact have laws and might enforce them.
That’s a long winded way to spell justice.
And I’m sure his victims and the society at large will jump onto the anti-jail bandwagon when they hear you put down their hardwired biological need for justice and to be guaranteed their community will choose their needs over their assailants as “making them feel better”.
I mean, it sounds more like vengeance to me. I generally like societies policies to be guided by the outcomes we desire as a society. Currently punishment is our highest goal, or at least that’s what we’re accomplishing. I just want people to consider if that’s what they want vs other goals like reducing overall crime, or severity of crime, or money spent etc.
Then you need to get you ears checked, probably your priorities too.
I like societies to actually protect its victims and not throw them under the bus to appease apologists who poison the well and undermine the cause of justice for their political agendas.
People who deliberately do things that are wrong need to go to jail because that is the basic promise all societies offer as their baseline, so without it, the game’s up. You might not like it but it should be there and I for one am not gonna let people like you take it away.
The point is you want to protect victims… after they’ve been victimized. I’d prefer to lower the chance someone is victimized at all.
That’s when they need the protection the most. Sayeth the victim themself. As in me who has been there.
I’d prefer you not drawing a false dichotomy between prevention – which is impossible especially for white collar crimes – and victim support after the fact.
Hell, I’d prefer you to grow the fuck up and stop being a cheap apologist and enabler too, but it doesn’t look like I’m going to get that.
We don’t want what you’re peddling. We don’t want your nightmare world where we victims are reduced to peasants and statistics with no rights just so you can make yourselves feel better when what we want means more than that.
I don’t want a world that hides viciousness and horror behind the veneer of a welfare state and tells its victims who demand justice that it’s better they be sacrified to some rapist or their families to some serial killer or their retirement funds to some hambeast like this Bankman-Fried fucker. He needs to be Bankman-Salad.
All we are to you are annoying inconveniences in the way of your authoritarianism and we don’t want it.
We want actual morals and values enforced. That’s what justice means to us.
Now stop going into crime threads and pushing your horrifying apologetics. It will not get you what you want.
I can tell you’re very emotional about this, and I philosophically for government policy positions usually find that emotional reactions lead to things like the Patriot act, or KOPSA, or the TSA - bad policy that feels good. Policies that make the country worse for the majority who aren’t victims and so do not have the emotional reaction.
My point is not to belittle or reduce victims at all. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I feel for people who are hurt by others, and I want to give them the support they need.
I also want to try and make policies that achieve the citizens goals. I don’t think the current justice system in the US accomplishes that - massive corruption, private prisons, police brutality and immunity, unscientific forensics, a legal system that is expensive for everyone and overwhelmed, prisons that are in the news for killing people via lack of safe temps, flooding, murders by other prisoners, rape, etc etc. Maybe your goal is to make jail / prison hell on earth for anyone who ever ends up there, innocence or guilt be damned (remember - Sam is going there before he’s legally convicted, most people do - and for years).
And maybe all that makes you feel better. It makes me ashamed. It makes me sad. It seems like a mockery of what we espouse in our propaganda of being a nation of laws, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and no cruel and unusual punishment. I just want people who support the current system to know that’s what they’re getting.
I don’t think there’s much evidence the above system gets us any rehabilitation, gives any thought to what happens after someone serves their time, or actually works as a deterrent. Maybe you think all criminal jail / prison sentences should just be a life sentence to get rid of the pesky what do we do with criminals who’ve served their sentence. I don’t know. I have to wonder though - do his victims feel better about him being in jail if they knew it wouldn’t get them their money back, and is actually costing them extra in taxes to house him? I don’t want crime to pay - but I also wonder if just freezing all his assets till trial and not letting him leave the country would cost us less? Remember, he committed a financial crime - I want to minimize additional financial loss. If convicted - I still don’t see Jail as the equal punishment - I would think financial hits like seizing the frozen assets, barring him from being involved in running any companies, and garnishing any future wages to repay victims etc would be equally just, and at least have some hope of making the victims somewhat whole. Putting him in jail just raises their taxes(incrementally, but it does - jails aren’t free).
Okay everyone, this is the point where we can wholly dismiss him and his other troll buddies in the thread. This fucking clown doesn’t have a real point or policy. They’re in here concern trolling and harassing, not one but two by my count, CSA survivors over this, and for what?
Because they don’t like punishing people? Then they don’t want justice or a meaningful society.
Because they don’t want prisons? Well, people like him pushed for prisons in the 1800s because they didn’t want the stocks, and now look where we are. Perhaps instead of letting them hook their fingers under our noses and drag us wherever they want, we should just laugh at, ignore and ban them.
Like, let’s take this guy for example. His whole post is a sales pitch. It never says anything directly, only implies. He’s all over the place with no straightforward or coherent argument or even demand for what he wants, and people who obfuscate their motives or arguments in such a manner do NOT have your best interests at heart.
He and the other concern trolling assclowns need to leave. Why aren’t the mods doing anything about them?