Relevant post: https://slrpnk.net/post/1480928
Also I ask that y’all refrain from downvoting opposing opinions in this thread. In this case, I think dialogue is more useful than downvotes.
As comfortable as I’d be with a woman taking contraceptives. None are completely safe and there haven’t been nearly enough studies on their effects (particularly the mental health implications).
Just because there hasn’t been enough study on men’s birth control, doesn’t mean we put the burden of contraceptives on women alone.
I just want to add to the conversation that part of the reason why male contraceptives haven’t been approved yet isn’t all because men are shying away from the burden of side effects from contraceptives. It’s because of how risk evaluations for medications in development work. The risk of pregnancy is severe pain, permanent scarring, death, and a myriad of post partum conditions that can become chronic. When women take contraceptives, they are averting themselves of this risk. When men take contraceptives, they are generally not averting themselves of any direct health risks (not including the consequences of fatherhood). It’s also easier to prevent the release of one egg with certainty than stopping millions of sperm.
This is not to say that it’s a good reason to let women suffer from side effects alone and deny men the option to take on the burden. This is just one of many systemic barriers in modern medicine that have been detrimental to women.
I appreciate the discussion and absolutely agree with your points.
I use to inhale tobacco and ingest alcohol and eat at McDonalds. How much worse can those chemicals be.
Vasalgel sure looks like the ideal contraceptive - no side effects, long lasting, cheap, the surgery is as easy as taking a blood sample, and better that the hormonal pill in every way.
It’s only problem is that it’s still in the trials for 13 years and counting.
Dudes who refuse the idea of male contraceptive because it will harm their idea of masculinity are those you don’t want to have children with anyway.
Can we distinguish men who don’t consent to using contraception with men who basically worship tate and chauvinism?
I don’t use them because I don’t want them, and I don’t owe anybody an explanation.
I think there’s alot of men like me that don’t wanna be lumped up with Andrew Tate.
They can steal part of my dick when I’m a baby but we still don’t have ball valves? Just give me ball valves.
This is the based mindset. The double standard is real.
Yes men all feel mocked when women are flashing their Fallopian tube valves.
A male contraceptive medication would have to work through a fundamentally different mechanism than female birth control, requiring changes to sperm or sperm production. I myself would be extremely skeptical until it had been on the market for a long period of time. This is less a skepticism of science and more of a skepticism of the pharmaceutical industry (particularly in the states).
Edit: After looking into the mechanisms of the up and coming methods (primarily hormonal) that have been in the news I think my conclusion was a little hasty. I think long term risks are likely very low or at least comparable to women’s birth control.
As a concept I would welcome a safe affordable male contraceptive and would use it if appropriate.
I would say that I would definitely evaluate the option very carefully. Especially in a committed relationship. Sometimes female birth control can bring benefits beyond just birth control, along with its drawbacks. My partner suffered from severe period cramps at a point in her life, where the birth control she used suppressed that. That said, it would actually be positive to have the option of a male contraceptive in a relationship. We share the pleasure and the responsibility. In the end, the safest option with the least side effects will probably win out. If that is a male contraceptive, so be it.
Outside of a committed relationship, condoms just makes more sense. I cannot imagine taking the risks associated with sex and not taking any precautions for it. Then again, my early 20s was spent in a country and area with a high prevalence of HIV, so not taking chances is ingrained due to that. It would also depend on just active a sex life we are dealing with.
People who want to take hormones typically used for contraception for their other effects still can do so. I know people who don’t have sex at all or not with anyone who produces semen, who use contraceptives this way.
Absolutely. I’d much rather take this medication than use a conform. Assuming of course neither my sexual partner nor I had carried an STI.
In an imaginary and magical world where I actually get to have sex? Sure.
yes, though pretty soon i’ll be gettin the snips regardless
most definitely.
but then again, I’ve had a vasectomy, so that already sort of indicates how far I’d go to avoid procreating.
Short answer but absolutely, I’d jump at the chance.
Probably not, I’d likely stick with condoms. Any male contraceptive medication would be too new to have any clear idea of whether it was safe. Even for women’s contraceptives that have been around for decades, there are a ton of potential side effects and risks.
Absolutely. It goes without saying that women’s bc pills come with a myriad of side effects. They often have to try different options to find what works for them. I’d personally enter the market as soon as its available, but I’d prefer for several options to be approved so we can pivot if one particular pill doesn’t agree with you. Until then, a good old fashioned condom is my best friend.
As one user already said, Vasalgel looked really promising. Waited for years for it. In the end, I got a vasectomy.
It was the only way I could control the means of my reproduction. Anxiety and stress during sex, and absolute panic during condom fail is not fun. If I could have taken a pill, I would have absolutely done that.
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That’s a valid choice to make. But I just want to highlight the misconception that female birth control is labeled as ‘safe’ in a vacuum. Relative to the risk of pregnancy, which can lead to death and other permanent conditions, anything but getting pregnant would be considered safe in this context. This is part of why male birth control hasn’t been developed yet, because there is no counterpoint, from a medical perspective, to being an infertile man since biological men don’t get pregnant.
Some severe side effects of oral birth control are the increased risk of blood clots (deep vein thrombosis), high blood pressure, heart attack and stroke, liver disorders. Women who take oral birth control are often not well informed about this. And among the ‘less severe’ side effects are migraines, headaches, nausea, bloating, mood swings, and breast pain. Just imagine yourself living with these ‘acceptable side effects’. That is the state of modern medicine for women.
If your partner decides to take on the burden of birth control, just know that it’s not a walk in the park. There are real life changing consequences to taking birth control for many women.
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Rule 3. Be the men’s issues conversation you want to see in the world. Here is some context to what you quoted.
I feel that there is some degree of unnecessary gate keeping here. I think your pride in never engaging in conversation in female spaces is misplaced. To me, that speaks more to a lack of interest in opening up a dialogue about women’s issues.
What’s worrying about this community is how much self-blame is in some conversations. Some people have a tendency to conflate the patriarchy with men, systemic with individual issues, awareness with taking on fault, fault with responsibility, temperament with social conditioning, etc. I often see people fault ‘men’ and by extension, themselves, for something that is not any one man’s fault.
For example, in the comment thread that you quoted, the general sentiment was that many women are choosing to remain single because it’s men’s fault for not being good enough. I don’t entirely agree that the phenomenon of women becoming increasingly single is purely due to men’s behavior, because I think that it is primarily the product of feminism attributing women with personhood and being happily single. Feminism has yet to do that for effectively for men. Hence what I meant by “Feminism has taught many women, but not enough men, how to live a fulfilling life beyond patriarchal norms.”
In the comment above in this post men were said to have ‘put the burden of contraceptives on women’, but there is more nuance to that because of the nature of medication risk analysis makes it much harder to justify birth control side effects for men.
Sometimes, rebuttals like these are dismissed as ‘anti-feminist’ because it seems to be taboo around here for men to say ‘it’s not men’s fault’ to systemic inequalities. There is a lack of separation between fault and responsibility here that I’m hoping that I can sort out by saying ‘it’s not men’s fault’.
Also, I want to clear misconceptions around topics like female birth control because I’ve had bad experiences with it and I’m pretty sensitive about it when it’s deemed as something easy.
Above all, I want to understand men’s issues because I find that to be lacking in many feminist spaces. My partner and several friends are all facing mental health issues, but don’t often talk about it. I don’t want to push them, so I’ll try and learn what I can from this community and try to understand and empathize when they feel ready.
