- cross-posted to:
- usnews@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- usnews@beehaw.org
Summary
Louisiana is set to execute Jessie Hoffman by nitrogen gas on Tuesday, becoming the second state to use this method despite banning it for euthanizing cats and dogs under state law.
Lawyers argue the method constitutes cruel punishment, citing four recent Alabama executions where prisoners showed distress signs including violent shaking and convulsions.
Louisiana veterinarian Lee Capone, who helped ban animal gassing in the state, called Hoffman’s planned execution “horrific.”
A federal judge’s temporary stay was overturned Friday by the fifth circuit court. Three major nitrogen manufacturers have blocked their products from being used in executions.
There’s two things going on here.
As a pilot, I’m familiar with hypoxia and how it works. I or pretty much any other pilot could very quickly write a completely bulletproof execution protocol that would guarantee a 100% painless death every time. It would involve a non-rebreathing 100% nitrogen mask so every lungful taken is 100% fresh nitrogen. In this mode, you just get drowsy and euphoric and pass out with no physical pain.
If they ask me to write it, I don’t care if they offer a million dollars I wouldn’t do it. I think the death penalty is barbaric and the way we have applied it is even worse, given how there are numerous instances of people executed despite evidence they were innocent being blocked by court procedure and prosecutors. I’m not saying there aren’t people the world is better off without, there absolutely are. But if we are going to kill people, we need to be absolutely 100% totally fucking sure beyond any doubt regardless of procedure. So I will not support the death penalty.
And that brings us to the two issues.
First is that very few people who actually understand how to do it have any interest in writing good execution protocol. Thus a lot of the protocols are written by people without understanding of human physiology. And quite frankly, I would rather that be the case, if only so it is easier to challenge capital punishment.
Second, is that I think some of the people who write these protocols actually want to cause suffering. I say I’m a pilot so I have understanding of hypoxia, but none of my knowledge is unique or difficult to obtain. A quick Google for ‘painless death nitrogen’ would tell you everything you need to know.
So when I hear that the condemned is breathing his own CO2 from a bag, I conclude that either whoever wrote the protocol doesn’t have Google, or they are intentionally writing a protocol that will look good on paper but cause suffering in reality. Or the protocol is being implemented in such a way to cause suffering, for example if the nitrogen flow is not enough. An executioner could easily prolong suffering by simply using less nitrogen, causing the prisoner to breathe CO2 and thus feel panic reaction.
But I think that further illustrates why the death penalty is a bad idea. The fact that the entire stack from prison guard up to Governor isn’t 100% focused on a humane death sense to me we need to clean our own house before we start burning others.
Thank you for making me aware of this. Nitrogen is going to be my go-to method for euthanasia if Alzheimer’s or dementia comes knocking on my door. It looks like a little research will be needed to ensure proper, ahem, execution of said plan.
For somebody that actually wants to be dead, nitrogen is the most painless method I am aware of. The key is breathe 100% nitrogen little or no recycled breath or atmosphere air, and have this continue for several minutes. There is no choking sensation or pain. You just get light-headed and pass out and eventually die of hypoxia.
Look at this video. This guy is training to be a fighter pilot. They put you in a high altitude chamber to create hypoxic effects so you know what to recognize when you’re in the air. Fighter pilots breathe pure oxygen delivered through a series of regulators, gang load your regulator means manually select maximum flow rate on all regulators. So the point of this training is to recognize when you get hypoxic so you can crank up your oxygen.
Point is though, that guy isn’t suffering. He’s having a blast. He will keep holding up the wrong card and calling it four of spades all day. But that is what happens when the brain is starved of oxygen. If they reduce the oxygen level even farther in that chamber he would pass out, high enough and he would eventually die from it. Breathing 100% nitrogen at sea level does the exact same thing.
One assisted suicide group built a sort of death pod around this concept. I’m sure you can find it on Google. But the basic concept is it’s an enclosure and when you push a button on the inside, a liquid nitrogen tank in the base starts delivering gaseous nitrogen to the pod in enough quantity to push away any CO2 you exhale. They put a ton of research into it, like it has safety interlocks and override switches and I think it can even play music.
For whatever it’s worth, I hope you never have reason to make use of this information. I believe all life is precious.
But I also think that for somebody with a degenerative disease who’s quality of life is going downhill who absolutely 100% is not going to get better, I think the option of choosing to die with dignity rather than suffer for a few more years in an expensive hospital in constant pain is something that should be available. I think that’s a very personal decision and there’s nobody on the fucking planet who has any right to make it for anyone other than themself.
Geez you communicated that perfectly.
In a lot of ways, Lemmy is better than Reddit ever was. Even in its heyday.
As someone who was once far more pro right to assisted suicide a fundamental element of it being painless is consent or lack of knowledge. People who want to live will struggle to live and hold their breath to agony by pure instinct
This is true. But that’s also true of almost any execution method. IE, someone who would die of lethal injection would move in the restraints and try to make it hard to inject them.
Yes they’re all inhumane
There are a few problems with the ideal solution here tho. They want people around the victim to be able to interact with them (check vitals, comfort them, etc.) but not be in any danger.
So you need a method that’s perfectly fine for the execution, but not the people in the same room.
It’s actually a pretty tricky issue.
Actually with nitrogen it’s not tricky at all.
Gas chambers use toxic cyanide gas which is extremely painful to breathe in. After the execution the corpse has to be decontaminated so it does not poison mortuary workers. This is not a good system.
The air you are breathing right now is about 80% nitrogen (and 20% oxygen). Nitrogen is all around us. You breathe it with every breath. It is harmless and non-toxic.
Execution by nitrogen does not kill the prisoner because they are breathing nitrogen. It kills the prisoner because breathing 100% nitrogen means they are not breathing any oxygen. Our bodies need a constant flow of oxygen to survive. Remove that, even by simply displacing all the oxygen with a harmless substitute, and the person dies.
Thus if done correctly, all you really need is a breathing mask. You can have other people right next to the prisoner during the execution and they will suffer no ill effect as long as the room is generally ventilated.
That’s precisely why nitrogen is proposed. It’s 70% of the gas you breathe anyway.
If you take a large room, and flush a basketball sized space with 100% nitrogen, it’s no danger to anyone outside that bubble. Even if the bubble is extremely leaky, it takes a long time to change the ratio of gasses in the entire space of the room. Add an exhaust fan and a source of fresh air to the room and everyone in the room outside of the nitrogen bubble would be safe indefinitely.
That said the death penalty is unjustifiable from any perspective. It does not promote safety morality or justice, nor is it logical even from a coldly economic point of view.
Just do it outdoors?