Idk about that, but there’s def similarities. I think its dangerous to mischaracterize things that aren’t fascist as fascist, as popular movements which have done so seem to actually accelerate the spread of fascism. One a them dialectical historic contradictions.
But I don’t say this to take the wind out of anyone’s militancy against the all but unchecked rise of the anti-democratic authoritarian right. By the time something that is almost fascism becomes fully formed it is too late.
But it is worthwhile to use care when applying the term.
I do know about it and I will call it as I see it, not only was the US the birthplace of fascism back then, but the fascists won and have turned the US into a fascist empire in the 20th century. America being the birthplace of fascism isn’t just my idea or opinion, this is a studied and academic one of fascism, what it is and where it comes from. The US already lost the fight against the unchecked rise of the anti-democratic authoritarian right in the 70s. The history has been erased and they are way more fucked than people know. This is how I see the US as a now outsider, I’m sure that reading this will put up all the walls of defensiveness and I am sure that many people will downvote me as if I care. I’m sorry if you live there. This isn’t to say you can’t still eek out a life there and pretend if nothing is wrong, it is a really large country with a wide variety of communities and people. The top though, well, they’ve been working since 1917 to make sure 2024 looks the way that it does.
After WW2 the US ratlined the Nazi’s into their country and they took over in stealth, the red scare was a consolidation of Nazi power in the US. Since then they have stripped away every piece of socialism one by one there in a much slower burn than the Nazi’s in Germany to where you are today, two fascist parties and a population totally unaware of their own past, who the American communists were and are and what socialism is. The American oligarchs had to negotiate with the working class during the New Deal and they made damn sure that would never happen again.
The business plot was ultimately successful it just took longer than expected and the last somewhat democratic election was in 1972. Nixon was an actual fascist and his cabinet worked to destroy the remaining pieces of American democracy and opposition. He got caught in the last gasp of the left and functional media, the one time fourth estate, but they didn’t miss a beat. They used their tools in the CIA to do so, the CIA being an organization that exists to manipulate governments, they knew they needed a media figurehead that was more likable than Nixon to give them cover. Regan was chosen and the first fully American fascist regime started under a puppet. He was checked out and demented and allowed these ghouls to totally transform the US culture and focus fully on destroying the legacy of the October Revolution. The Soviets were incompetent and never actually were able to defeat the Whites who took over control of their state enterprises, this was a weak society and the US finally had the ability to destroy it in its moments of decay.
George Bush, who was the head of the CIA and son of one of the business plot members Prescott Bush, then became president and their decades long plan to collapse the communist nations and punish Russia for daring to challenge capital worked. They collapsed the Russian government, installed Yeltsin and transferred the means of production from that state back to the capitalist class now known as the “Russian Oligarchs” who were completely and totally aligned with the American Oligarchs. With the threat to capital nullified they set in motion the more of the business plot at home. Their controlled opposition took over from there, passed neoliberal policies like NAFTA, which they couldn’t have popularly gotten away with under a Republican administration, to completely destroy their working class and the remaining opposition at home. They made sure to repeal all the laws protecting the forth estate and the oligarchs consolidated their power over media and propaganda. At the same time they expanded the prisons and the carceral state which is the ratchet effect from my previous meme. Then those same people including Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Chaney, and the rest of the Nixon cabinet worked with George Bush’s son, the grandson of Prescott Bush, to steal an election and perform the final consolidation neo-liberalism and was the final nail in the coffin for that country.
9/11 was their cover, created and executed by one of their tools from their fight with the Soviets, the son of a Saudi billionaire and was the spark they needed to enable and roll out the modern police state. Most of the people on Lemmy are too young to remember what it was like before then now but the police and military hasn’t always been like this in my own life and before I left. In the following 20 years since 9/11 they laid waste to entire nations, they murdered over a million people across the middle east and central Asia, turning on their tools they used to maintain their power on the Russian border and are now turning on their tool in Russia with an eye of balkanizing that nation and profiting from the wars they will sell; Ukraine is first, Georgia will be next. This is all while running the empire they’ve run since the Monroe Doctrine, extracting the wealth from all the land to their south and destroying any resistance and installing fascists whenever possible there.
Now those same people (Chaney, et al) are endorsing the Democrats, the same controlled opposition of Clinton, who have moved so far right that they are to the right of the GWB administration while their political tools and operatives in the Republicans push the Overton window further and further right. This is what is so darkly funny about the people who are telling me this is their chance to beat fascism LOL. It is incidental who wins the election, they already won the bag there. The US is literally a Nazi empire. They have super max prisons and slaves in every state and are gearing up to build camps like the world hasn’t seen since WW2, regardless who wins. The population for the most part doesn’t question its militarism or its fundamental right to exercise power. They are clamoring to expand the regime of nuclear energy and weapons and the final piece is their war with China and the destruction of Eastern civilization. They will herald the era of nuclear terror where power will be decided at the press of a button and cities will be regularly wiped off the map to no opposition or mutually assured destruction. The Nazi’s learned a lot of lessons in WW2 about plausible deniability and secrecy and you end up with the hell scape you have today.
If you are American the only thing you can do from here is run when you can or fight them when we have to in the streets to show them that the working class still exists. They lost the class consciousness though and they lack the ability to organize, look at all the lemmy users who are depressed and demanding answers to people posting memes. They can’t resist, they have no solidarity with each other, and they are fully occupied by their toys. The oligarchs up to now have been very careful to protect the white people there so they are fully blinded and entrenched with a kay-fabe reality. The oligarchs are no longer afraid of them though and haven’t been in some time. The despair and hopelessness coming from there are the first cracks in the system. The school shootings and random violence are one of the results of this, expect that to get worse. We all lost the cold war. https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691019413/we-all-lost-the-cold-war
The take away from all this though isn’t pure hopelessness. This is just a description what happened in US and 350 million of almost 9 billion people in the world. Their plans for the rest of the world and themselves are not guaranteed and fascism is ultimately unsustainable. The petrol they use to power it is running out and they will not succeed. The global south will to rise to the occasion and resist and we will be victorious against the American empire. The future of humanity will come from where the bulk of us actually live.
Edit: There are obviously way more details and I skipped the 60s because this was already too long, characters like the Dulles Brothers and Kennedy feature prominently in the consolidation of fascism, but that will have to be another comment sometime.
Well there’s some things i agree with strongly, although I believe I still disagree with your definition of the word “fascist.” But it’s not an important difference since you’ve taken it up to actually try and learn history and make sense of it all. Very “class conscious worker” of you.
Do you do any organizing outside of your studies? You seem energetic, and class conscious workers have to get together and (imo) do political organizing, like how you discussed. I agree its a lousy time for consciousness but it think its changing. Time will tell. Thanks for the history lesson, appreciate you making time
Kind of ironic since Hitler based Germany’s immigration laws on USA’s.
The USA is where fascism was developed. The KKK are the first modern fascist group, Manifest destiny is lebensraum
Idk about that, but there’s def similarities. I think its dangerous to mischaracterize things that aren’t fascist as fascist, as popular movements which have done so seem to actually accelerate the spread of fascism. One a them dialectical historic contradictions.
But I don’t say this to take the wind out of anyone’s militancy against the all but unchecked rise of the anti-democratic authoritarian right. By the time something that is almost fascism becomes fully formed it is too late.
But it is worthwhile to use care when applying the term.
Hitler was explicit that he took inspiration from the US. The way the US treated the native tribes, in particular, was an inspiration to him.
I do know about it and I will call it as I see it, not only was the US the birthplace of fascism back then, but the fascists won and have turned the US into a fascist empire in the 20th century. America being the birthplace of fascism isn’t just my idea or opinion, this is a studied and academic one of fascism, what it is and where it comes from. The US already lost the fight against the unchecked rise of the anti-democratic authoritarian right in the 70s. The history has been erased and they are way more fucked than people know. This is how I see the US as a now outsider, I’m sure that reading this will put up all the walls of defensiveness and I am sure that many people will downvote me as if I care. I’m sorry if you live there. This isn’t to say you can’t still eek out a life there and pretend if nothing is wrong, it is a really large country with a wide variety of communities and people. The top though, well, they’ve been working since 1917 to make sure 2024 looks the way that it does.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler https://www.americanacademy.de/event/populism-fascism-and-the-klu-klux-klan-of-the-1920s/ https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/fascism-in-america/american-fascists/0CBABBADBB6A84EFA9EBB0FC170C1306 https://fpif.org/the-ugly-origins-of-trumps-america-first-policy/ https://www.project-syndicate.org/onpoint/fascism-100-years-and-the-threat-today-by-jason-stanley-2022-10
After WW2 the US ratlined the Nazi’s into their country and they took over in stealth, the red scare was a consolidation of Nazi power in the US. Since then they have stripped away every piece of socialism one by one there in a much slower burn than the Nazi’s in Germany to where you are today, two fascist parties and a population totally unaware of their own past, who the American communists were and are and what socialism is. The American oligarchs had to negotiate with the working class during the New Deal and they made damn sure that would never happen again.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/americas/north-america/us/2020/06/how-us-helped-leading-nazis-escape-europe https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/chasing-moon-wernher-von-braun-and-nazis/ https://slate.com/technology/2023/08/nasa-nazi-history-von-braun.html
The business plot was ultimately successful it just took longer than expected and the last somewhat democratic election was in 1972. Nixon was an actual fascist and his cabinet worked to destroy the remaining pieces of American democracy and opposition. He got caught in the last gasp of the left and functional media, the one time fourth estate, but they didn’t miss a beat. They used their tools in the CIA to do so, the CIA being an organization that exists to manipulate governments, they knew they needed a media figurehead that was more likable than Nixon to give them cover. Regan was chosen and the first fully American fascist regime started under a puppet. He was checked out and demented and allowed these ghouls to totally transform the US culture and focus fully on destroying the legacy of the October Revolution. The Soviets were incompetent and never actually were able to defeat the Whites who took over control of their state enterprises, this was a weak society and the US finally had the ability to destroy it in its moments of decay.
George Bush, who was the head of the CIA and son of one of the business plot members Prescott Bush, then became president and their decades long plan to collapse the communist nations and punish Russia for daring to challenge capital worked. They collapsed the Russian government, installed Yeltsin and transferred the means of production from that state back to the capitalist class now known as the “Russian Oligarchs” who were completely and totally aligned with the American Oligarchs. With the threat to capital nullified they set in motion the more of the business plot at home. Their controlled opposition took over from there, passed neoliberal policies like NAFTA, which they couldn’t have popularly gotten away with under a Republican administration, to completely destroy their working class and the remaining opposition at home. They made sure to repeal all the laws protecting the forth estate and the oligarchs consolidated their power over media and propaganda. At the same time they expanded the prisons and the carceral state which is the ratchet effect from my previous meme. Then those same people including Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Chaney, and the rest of the Nixon cabinet worked with George Bush’s son, the grandson of Prescott Bush, to steal an election and perform the final consolidation neo-liberalism and was the final nail in the coffin for that country.
9/11 was their cover, created and executed by one of their tools from their fight with the Soviets, the son of a Saudi billionaire and was the spark they needed to enable and roll out the modern police state. Most of the people on Lemmy are too young to remember what it was like before then now but the police and military hasn’t always been like this in my own life and before I left. In the following 20 years since 9/11 they laid waste to entire nations, they murdered over a million people across the middle east and central Asia, turning on their tools they used to maintain their power on the Russian border and are now turning on their tool in Russia with an eye of balkanizing that nation and profiting from the wars they will sell; Ukraine is first, Georgia will be next. This is all while running the empire they’ve run since the Monroe Doctrine, extracting the wealth from all the land to their south and destroying any resistance and installing fascists whenever possible there.
Now those same people (Chaney, et al) are endorsing the Democrats, the same controlled opposition of Clinton, who have moved so far right that they are to the right of the GWB administration while their political tools and operatives in the Republicans push the Overton window further and further right. This is what is so darkly funny about the people who are telling me this is their chance to beat fascism LOL. It is incidental who wins the election, they already won the bag there. The US is literally a Nazi empire. They have super max prisons and slaves in every state and are gearing up to build camps like the world hasn’t seen since WW2, regardless who wins. The population for the most part doesn’t question its militarism or its fundamental right to exercise power. They are clamoring to expand the regime of nuclear energy and weapons and the final piece is their war with China and the destruction of Eastern civilization. They will herald the era of nuclear terror where power will be decided at the press of a button and cities will be regularly wiped off the map to no opposition or mutually assured destruction. The Nazi’s learned a lot of lessons in WW2 about plausible deniability and secrecy and you end up with the hell scape you have today.
If you are American the only thing you can do from here is run when you can or fight them when we have to in the streets to show them that the working class still exists. They lost the class consciousness though and they lack the ability to organize, look at all the lemmy users who are depressed and demanding answers to people posting memes. They can’t resist, they have no solidarity with each other, and they are fully occupied by their toys. The oligarchs up to now have been very careful to protect the white people there so they are fully blinded and entrenched with a kay-fabe reality. The oligarchs are no longer afraid of them though and haven’t been in some time. The despair and hopelessness coming from there are the first cracks in the system. The school shootings and random violence are one of the results of this, expect that to get worse. We all lost the cold war. https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691019413/we-all-lost-the-cold-war
The take away from all this though isn’t pure hopelessness. This is just a description what happened in US and 350 million of almost 9 billion people in the world. Their plans for the rest of the world and themselves are not guaranteed and fascism is ultimately unsustainable. The petrol they use to power it is running out and they will not succeed. The global south will to rise to the occasion and resist and we will be victorious against the American empire. The future of humanity will come from where the bulk of us actually live.
Edit: There are obviously way more details and I skipped the 60s because this was already too long, characters like the Dulles Brothers and Kennedy feature prominently in the consolidation of fascism, but that will have to be another comment sometime.
Well there’s some things i agree with strongly, although I believe I still disagree with your definition of the word “fascist.” But it’s not an important difference since you’ve taken it up to actually try and learn history and make sense of it all. Very “class conscious worker” of you.
Do you do any organizing outside of your studies? You seem energetic, and class conscious workers have to get together and (imo) do political organizing, like how you discussed. I agree its a lousy time for consciousness but it think its changing. Time will tell. Thanks for the history lesson, appreciate you making time