I asked three questions, and one of them was, “Right?” That one was rhetorical, sort of. I was looking for confirmation if I understood things correctly.
For your reference, the other two are:
Would there be some kind of urgent problem if Trump won?
Will we need to revolt?
How many are in a dozen where you live? Also, would Trump winning the election be an urgent problem?
From what I understand, you are asking me to advocate for OPs perspective which is pointless and I am not going to do that. I would recommend asking OP directly and if OP doesnt want to answer then you have to live with that.
Also I would answer those questions with yes but just as I said I am not OP.
You’re the one who intervened in the discussion to say that OP stood ready to resist Trump, and throw some shade at these voting people, implying that they might not be willing to resist Trump. I didn’t chase you down demanding explanations of OP’s motivations.
If you say we need to resist Trump if he does come to power, then we can agree on that, at least. How you get from that to overtly advocating for not voting, I have no idea, but good luck with that. I hope your not voting and hoping plan goes well and Trump doesn’t manage to seize power.
I’m not trying to be argumentative with you, now that you’ve finally admitted that Trump could be a problem, because like I said, I agree. But everything you’re advocating as a strategy of stopping Trump from coming to power makes absolutely no sense to me. That’s why I’m talking to you this way.
OP seems to have dipped from the conversation, which seems wise. Because what could he say?
throw some shade at these voting people, implying that they might not be willing to resist Trump.
Well last time Trump won the voting people did not resist at large. Instead they waited around 4 years, voted him out and then again did not do much for 4 years again. What makes you believe they will resist in any meaningful way this time?
I hope your not voting and hoping plan
This just shows you are actually not engaging with me but with a straw person. This is something I never said and you know it.
But everything you’re advocating as a strategy of stopping Trump from coming to power makes absolutely no sense to me.
Which strategies you are referring to? I did not mention any specific ones in our discussions. It again feels like you are actually engaging with your perception of me and not actually my positions.
Well last time Trump won the voting people did not resist at large. Instead they waited around 4 years, voted him out and then again did not do much for 4 years again. What makes you believe they will resist in any meaningful way this time?
Wow.
So you looked at this set of circumstances:
Too many people !notvoted in 2016
We got some horrors
Nobody rose up or did anything
So fewer people !notvoted in 2020, which finally improved the situation, although it’s all far, far from solved
Now we’re facing the prospect of more horrors, in a much worse fashion this time
And your solution is more !notvoting, and predicting that if no one rises up or does anything, it’ll be the voting people’s fault, when the horrors come.
Sterling.
This just shows you are actually not engaging with me but with a straw person. This is something I never said and you know it.
You have a reasonable point here. I looked over your profile. It looks like you like anarchism, anarchist graffiti, you like organizing and direct action. That’s gold. I like it. It got me thinking about a cafe in my area which I think I should go to and talk to the people about getting involved in some sort of direct action myself. I do think that part of it is great, and a valuable thing.
The only place you lost me is where you specifically are advocating for throwing away a powerful tool for making change. It sounds like not voting because Hillary wasn’t good enough was what fucked up the country so much after 2016, and voting was what got things back in a better direction in 2020, and now the prospect of not voting carries with it the threat of a new unfolding horror show that’s substantially worse than 2016.
I’m glad you’re okay with millions of people of the wrong ethnicity suffering or dying under Trump, just to teach the Democrats a lesson. I am not.
I don’t think it’s either-or, in terms of making change. I think you can vote, and also do direct action. I think not voting in the face of what’s in front of us is a careless and irresponsible choice.
The only place you lost me is where you specifically are advocating for throwing away a powerful tool for making change.
Voting is not a powerful tool to make change imo. It literally gives the chance to make change away to someone else.
I think you can vote, and also do direct action.
I think so too. You can do that. I wont and I will not change that for the foreseeable future, so instead it might be more useful to find the things we have in common and look for ways where we can cooperate to stop Trump while dismantling the current world and social order that is build on patriarchy and white supremacy.
And here we get to the core of the problem. Even when I explicitly ask for ways of cooperation, there seems no good will to do so from you. This experience is something I make often with people that put voting on a pedastal.
Seems like I dont pass your purity test for cooperation /s
This might surprise you, but sometimes, someone who’s trying to talk sense into you is looking out for your best interests.
It’s actually pretty common that the person who’s saying, “I won’t and I will not change,” and has simply decided that it’s not up for discussion, is hurting themselves and the people around them. It’s actually pretty common for them to say things like, “I don’t pass your purity test” to try to defend their self-harmful behavior against people who are talking to them, but purity tests are not the point.
I would have thought that:
You have a reasonable point here. I looked over your profile. It looks like you like anarchism, anarchist graffiti, you like organizing and direct action. That’s gold. I like it. It got me thinking about a cafe in my area which I think I should go to and talk to the people about getting involved in some sort of direct action myself. I do think that part of it is great, and a valuable thing.
would have been enough of an olive branch, but I guess not. Your “I’m so cool for not voting” stance might get a whole bunch of people killed. I don’t think it’s a good idea. You may not like being told that. I definitely wouldn’t. But, regardless of that, your “I’m so cool for not voting” stance might get a whole bunch of people killed. Therefore, I don’t think it’s a good idea. I think you need to hear that.
I asked three questions, and one of them was, “Right?” That one was rhetorical, sort of. I was looking for confirmation if I understood things correctly.
For your reference, the other two are:
How many are in a dozen where you live? Also, would Trump winning the election be an urgent problem?
From what I understand, you are asking me to advocate for OPs perspective which is pointless and I am not going to do that. I would recommend asking OP directly and if OP doesnt want to answer then you have to live with that.
Also I would answer those questions with yes but just as I said I am not OP.
You’re the one who intervened in the discussion to say that OP stood ready to resist Trump, and throw some shade at these voting people, implying that they might not be willing to resist Trump. I didn’t chase you down demanding explanations of OP’s motivations.
If you say we need to resist Trump if he does come to power, then we can agree on that, at least. How you get from that to overtly advocating for not voting, I have no idea, but good luck with that. I hope your not voting and hoping plan goes well and Trump doesn’t manage to seize power.
I’m not trying to be argumentative with you, now that you’ve finally admitted that Trump could be a problem, because like I said, I agree. But everything you’re advocating as a strategy of stopping Trump from coming to power makes absolutely no sense to me. That’s why I’m talking to you this way.
OP seems to have dipped from the conversation, which seems wise. Because what could he say?
Well last time Trump won the voting people did not resist at large. Instead they waited around 4 years, voted him out and then again did not do much for 4 years again. What makes you believe they will resist in any meaningful way this time?
This just shows you are actually not engaging with me but with a straw person. This is something I never said and you know it.
Which strategies you are referring to? I did not mention any specific ones in our discussions. It again feels like you are actually engaging with your perception of me and not actually my positions.
Wow.
So you looked at this set of circumstances:
And your solution is more !notvoting, and predicting that if no one rises up or does anything, it’ll be the voting people’s fault, when the horrors come.
Sterling.
You have a reasonable point here. I looked over your profile. It looks like you like anarchism, anarchist graffiti, you like organizing and direct action. That’s gold. I like it. It got me thinking about a cafe in my area which I think I should go to and talk to the people about getting involved in some sort of direct action myself. I do think that part of it is great, and a valuable thing.
The only place you lost me is where you specifically are advocating for throwing away a powerful tool for making change. It sounds like not voting because Hillary wasn’t good enough was what fucked up the country so much after 2016, and voting was what got things back in a better direction in 2020, and now the prospect of not voting carries with it the threat of a new unfolding horror show that’s substantially worse than 2016.
I’m glad you’re okay with millions of people of the wrong ethnicity suffering or dying under Trump, just to teach the Democrats a lesson. I am not.
I don’t think it’s either-or, in terms of making change. I think you can vote, and also do direct action. I think not voting in the face of what’s in front of us is a careless and irresponsible choice.
That’s what I feel about it.
Voting is not a powerful tool to make change imo. It literally gives the chance to make change away to someone else.
I think so too. You can do that. I wont and I will not change that for the foreseeable future, so instead it might be more useful to find the things we have in common and look for ways where we can cooperate to stop Trump while dismantling the current world and social order that is build on patriarchy and white supremacy.
I know one way. You absolutely refuse to cooperate with it, though.
And here we get to the core of the problem. Even when I explicitly ask for ways of cooperation, there seems no good will to do so from you. This experience is something I make often with people that put voting on a pedastal.
Seems like I dont pass your purity test for cooperation /s
This might surprise you, but sometimes, someone who’s trying to talk sense into you is looking out for your best interests.
It’s actually pretty common that the person who’s saying, “I won’t and I will not change,” and has simply decided that it’s not up for discussion, is hurting themselves and the people around them. It’s actually pretty common for them to say things like, “I don’t pass your purity test” to try to defend their self-harmful behavior against people who are talking to them, but purity tests are not the point.
I would have thought that:
would have been enough of an olive branch, but I guess not. Your “I’m so cool for not voting” stance might get a whole bunch of people killed. I don’t think it’s a good idea. You may not like being told that. I definitely wouldn’t. But, regardless of that, your “I’m so cool for not voting” stance might get a whole bunch of people killed. Therefore, I don’t think it’s a good idea. I think you need to hear that.