One country is spending billions try to create positive PR, the other country just participates in sports, organized and paid by whatever country. The second is not sportswashing, it is just sports.
If Israel starts buying teams and leagues and organizing World Cups even though it is a somewhat small country with 40C+ temperature during summer, then we could talk about sportswashing. At best Israel does a little bit of pinkwashing but thats a different thing. And i am kinda ok with that, because thats for human rights. While if Qatar or KSA dont spend billions, someone will host those games anyway, in a more natural location(with more appropriate climate, more fans, etc).
Does a UCI ProTeam cycling team cofounded and co-owned by a Republican American billionaire who says “We want to continue to put Israel on the map internationally and in cycling, like we did until now with the sport diplomacy.” count? I’d say it definitely does.
Just in case you think that’s a normal thing that lots of countries with no significant history of human rights violations do rather than blatant sports washing, these are the other countries that own a cycling team in one of the two top divisions:
A LITTLE? That’s one of the main Zionist whataboutisms, despite the fact that same sex marriage is still illegal in Israel!
And i am kinda ok with that, because thats for human rights
The hell it is! If Israel cared about the human rights of LGBTQ+ people, they’d allow same sex marriage and stop using the community as a shield against correct accusations of countless atrocities against other minority groups.
Does a UCI ProTeam cycling team cofounded and co-owned by a Republican American billionaire who says “We want to continue to put Israel on the map internationally and in cycling, like we did until now with the sport diplomacy.” count? I’d say it definitely does.
Ask a random person on the street to name 1 cycling team, they wont be able to do so. Ask them to name 10 football teams and they will do that with ease. And most of them will be arab owned. The scale is not the same. Maybe you are an american and you arent aware what has happened to european football teams.
And they are doing the same with esports too and probably other sectors which i am not aware. That on its own isnt issue, the issue comes from why they are doing that.
If Israel cared about the human rights of LGBTQ+ people, they’d allow same sex marriage and stop using the community as a shield against correct accusations of countless atrocities against other minority groups.
Israel is a very divided society. They have extremely conservative religious people and super liberal ones. You cant force change like that, change takes time.
The same can be said for KSA. I am sure there are plenty of saudis who are kinda liberal and dont really care about oppressing gay people and women. I dont expect MBS to give women freedom to do what they want, i know that isnt feasible in today’s KSA. And while this is a huge issue, it is mostly out of KSA’s leadership hand. What is feasible to change and what makes KSA really deplorable is how they treat opposition and their promotion of islamic extremism.
If you are going around threatening and murdering opposition, thats a big issue. At least Israel has democracy, which is a big achievement. Even if it is only for its jewish population. And it is the only democracy in the area. Funnily enough, the other state that had somewhat democracy in the area was Syria. Hence the syrian protests, etc. Egypt also almost became democratic, but the West didnt approve a muslim government, hence the government was overthrown.
KSA does not have democracy and its rulers are naturally very insecure about their regime. They need local and foreign support. They buy local support through bribing and violence, they buy foreign support through bribing/buying shit(sports, military expenditure, etc).
Ask a random person on the street to name 1 cycling team, they wont be able to do so
In the US, sure. It’s very big in Europe, Australia, and elsewhere, though.
Ask them to name 10 football teams and they will do that with ease
Probably
And most of them will be arab owned
That’s a whataboutism. That Arab countries sportswash doesn’t mean that Israel doesn’t.
The scale is not the same
The scale is irrelevant. Sportswashing is sportswashing whether it’s one cycling team or the entire American and Saudi leagues suddenly being filled with superstars from European clubs.
Maybe you are an american and you arent aware what has happened to european football teams.
I’m not and I’m very much against sportswashing no matter who does it.
Israel is a very divided society. They have extremely conservative religious people and super liberal ones. You cant force change like that, change takes time.
I’m talking about the Israeli government coalition, which has full control and consists ONLY of theocratic fascists and less religiously motivated fascists.
They’re the ones in charge of denying LGBTQ+ people rights, they’re the ones in charge of committing daily atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank and they’re the ones in charge of the Hasbara gaslighting you’ve fallen for.
The same can be said for KSA
You’re going to defend Saudi Arabia too, now? Yikes! 😬
I am sure there are plenty of saudis who are kinda liberal and dont really care about oppressing gay people and women.
Yes, but they’re not in charge so they’re not the ones we blame for the atrocious actions of the Royal family and their representatives.
I dont expect MBS to give women freedom to do what they want, i know that isnt feasible in today’s KSA
He’s an autocratic monarch ffs! If he wants it, it happens no matter how little the clergy likes it.
And while this is a huge issue, it is mostly out of KSA’s leadership hand
No, it isn’t. Stop covering for the barbaric regime.
At least Israel has democracy, which is a big achievement
Democracy for some but not others isn’t real democracy. Did you consider Apartheid South Africa a democratic country?
which is a big achievement
Not really, no. It’s the norm for rich modern countries, which Israel is. You might as well give them credit for having trains or public swimming pools.
Even if it is only for its jewish population.
So you’re fine with an Apartheid ethnostate so long as the people who belong to the right ethnicity/religion get to help decide who abuses the others?
Doesn’t sound like you care about democracy that much, if at all.
And it is the only democracy in the area
Nope. That’s also pure Hasbara gaslighting used to excuse the daily crimes against humanity committed by the fascist apartheid regime.
Funnily enough, the other state that had somewhat democracy in the area was Syria. Hence the syrian protests, etc. Egypt also almost became democratic, but the West didnt approve a muslim government, hence the government was overthrown
Pure Islamophobic propaganda.
Except for the part about the US, which is also wrong but not Islamophobic. As much as the US loves overthrowing democratically elected governments, this one was the Egyptian military acting alone.
KSA does not have democracy
So you ARE capable of saying true things! Bravo!
its rulers are naturally very insecure about their regime
On the contrary. It’s the fact that they have absolute power which is not threatened that allows them to act with such impunity.
They need local and foreign support.
They have full local control already. There’s like a thousand princes ruling their own smaller fiefdoms, all subservient to MBS.
As for foreign support, they have no problem buying that with oil, money, and sportswashing.
Just like Israel gets foreign support by buying politicians, sportswashing, and the biggest propaganda operation since the cold war if not ever.
One country is spending billions try to create positive PR, the other country just participates in sports, organized and paid by whatever country. The second is not sportswashing, it is just sports.
If Israel starts buying teams and leagues and organizing World Cups even though it is a somewhat small country with 40C+ temperature during summer, then we could talk about sportswashing. At best Israel does a little bit of pinkwashing but thats a different thing. And i am kinda ok with that, because thats for human rights. While if Qatar or KSA dont spend billions, someone will host those games anyway, in a more natural location(with more appropriate climate, more fans, etc).
Does a UCI ProTeam cycling team cofounded and co-owned by a Republican American billionaire who says “We want to continue to put Israel on the map internationally and in cycling, like we did until now with the sport diplomacy.” count? I’d say it definitely does.
Just in case you think that’s a normal thing that lots of countries with no significant history of human rights violations do rather than blatant sports washing, these are the other countries that own a cycling team in one of the two top divisions:
Kazakhstan: Astana
Bahrain: Team Bahrain Victorious
United Arab Emirates: UAE Team Emirates
Russia: Gazprom RusVelo (now defunct for obvious reasons)
A LITTLE? That’s one of the main Zionist whataboutisms, despite the fact that same sex marriage is still illegal in Israel!
The hell it is! If Israel cared about the human rights of LGBTQ+ people, they’d allow same sex marriage and stop using the community as a shield against correct accusations of countless atrocities against other minority groups.
Also, blackmailing people into informing on their neighbors isn’t actually a way to express affection where I’m from…
Ask a random person on the street to name 1 cycling team, they wont be able to do so. Ask them to name 10 football teams and they will do that with ease. And most of them will be arab owned. The scale is not the same. Maybe you are an american and you arent aware what has happened to european football teams.
And they are doing the same with esports too and probably other sectors which i am not aware. That on its own isnt issue, the issue comes from why they are doing that.
Israel is a very divided society. They have extremely conservative religious people and super liberal ones. You cant force change like that, change takes time.
The same can be said for KSA. I am sure there are plenty of saudis who are kinda liberal and dont really care about oppressing gay people and women. I dont expect MBS to give women freedom to do what they want, i know that isnt feasible in today’s KSA. And while this is a huge issue, it is mostly out of KSA’s leadership hand. What is feasible to change and what makes KSA really deplorable is how they treat opposition and their promotion of islamic extremism.
If you are going around threatening and murdering opposition, thats a big issue. At least Israel has democracy, which is a big achievement. Even if it is only for its jewish population. And it is the only democracy in the area. Funnily enough, the other state that had somewhat democracy in the area was Syria. Hence the syrian protests, etc. Egypt also almost became democratic, but the West didnt approve a muslim government, hence the government was overthrown.
KSA does not have democracy and its rulers are naturally very insecure about their regime. They need local and foreign support. They buy local support through bribing and violence, they buy foreign support through bribing/buying shit(sports, military expenditure, etc).
In the US, sure. It’s very big in Europe, Australia, and elsewhere, though.
Probably
That’s a whataboutism. That Arab countries sportswash doesn’t mean that Israel doesn’t.
The scale is irrelevant. Sportswashing is sportswashing whether it’s one cycling team or the entire American and Saudi leagues suddenly being filled with superstars from European clubs.
I’m not and I’m very much against sportswashing no matter who does it.
I’m talking about the Israeli government coalition, which has full control and consists ONLY of theocratic fascists and less religiously motivated fascists.
They’re the ones in charge of denying LGBTQ+ people rights, they’re the ones in charge of committing daily atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank and they’re the ones in charge of the Hasbara gaslighting you’ve fallen for.
You’re going to defend Saudi Arabia too, now? Yikes! 😬
Yes, but they’re not in charge so they’re not the ones we blame for the atrocious actions of the Royal family and their representatives.
He’s an autocratic monarch ffs! If he wants it, it happens no matter how little the clergy likes it.
No, it isn’t. Stop covering for the barbaric regime.
Democracy for some but not others isn’t real democracy. Did you consider Apartheid South Africa a democratic country?
Not really, no. It’s the norm for rich modern countries, which Israel is. You might as well give them credit for having trains or public swimming pools.
So you’re fine with an Apartheid ethnostate so long as the people who belong to the right ethnicity/religion get to help decide who abuses the others?
Doesn’t sound like you care about democracy that much, if at all.
Nope. That’s also pure Hasbara gaslighting used to excuse the daily crimes against humanity committed by the fascist apartheid regime.
Pure Islamophobic propaganda.
Except for the part about the US, which is also wrong but not Islamophobic. As much as the US loves overthrowing democratically elected governments, this one was the Egyptian military acting alone.
So you ARE capable of saying true things! Bravo!
On the contrary. It’s the fact that they have absolute power which is not threatened that allows them to act with such impunity.
They have full local control already. There’s like a thousand princes ruling their own smaller fiefdoms, all subservient to MBS.
As for foreign support, they have no problem buying that with oil, money, and sportswashing.
Just like Israel gets foreign support by buying politicians, sportswashing, and the biggest propaganda operation since the cold war if not ever.