Horseshoe theory. The extremes can align in support for authoritarianism due to drive for protective social legislation. Hence the saying, “fascism arrives as your friend.”
It’s generally anticommunist propaganda, equating Communists and Anarchists with fascists, as a way to make the liberal status quo seem “rational.” In actuality, there is nothing similar between the far left and the far right. Additionally, the claim that violence is common on the far left and far right when compared to already common violence of liberalism is additionally used to paint leftist structures in a negative light.
It’s anti-communist propaganda in as much as Marxist leninists pretend to be communist without being communist themselves. Giving communist and anarchist a bad name because ML are authoritarian like the fascist.
There is massive similarly between the ML related governments that exist and fascistic governments. The fascists perpetrate oppression and violence for their own sake in the name of capitalists and shareholders. Where ML for their own sake perpetrate oppression and violence against the people in the name of the people. Which somehow manages to be less self consistent than even the fascists.
Assessed as a whole there’s really nothing to recommend ml over many Fascist governments. Too much Freedom’s lost with too little in return.
Communism is an economic system, which doesn’t define social legislation. A social system can go from libertarian, which is full freedom from government legislation, to authoritarian, which is highly legislated social behavior. That is independent of the system of economy, which in the US is defined by more or fewer social programs, or increased or decreased taxation.
Anarchists are socially libertarian by definition. They support full civil liberty, devoid of social legislation.
I understand horseshoe theory as increased social legislation, usually beginning as a way of limiting or censoring “the opposition,” until a new leader takes office and leverages it against their opposition.
Communism, chiefly, is a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society. A world republic where from each’s ability, each’s needs are satisfied. You cannot separate that from the concept of government.
“Authoritarian” and “Libertarian” are vibes-based labels. Capitalism is inherently a system where the majority do not hold power, yet by your definition it could be “libertarian” or “authoritarian.”
Horseshoe theory again is used purely to equate the left with the far-right and uphold the liberal status quo as a “sensible meeting point” and legitimize the violent system.
I’m not familiar with the term vibes-based regarding social legislation. An example of social legislation in a communist nation would be law against homosexuality in Russia. One is independent of the other. Capitalism is also a system of economy, devoid of social legislation inference.
Are you familial with the Nolan Chart? It displays economic legislation on the X axis and social legislation on the Y axis, defining their clear independence. I find it to be helpful in seeing the difference in restrictions to social freedom independent of economic support (or lack thereof).
While I am loathe to defend Marxist leninist like cowbee. I think it is important to point out that Russia most certainly is not now communist. Nor has it ever been. And that is the trick with Marxist leninists and their communists parties. Their governments have never been communist. They make lofty arguments about the benefits of communism. But have never once managed to actually transition or move towards transition in a reasonable fashion.
It’s the reason that to a 1. Nearly every person you meet who has Marxist leninist aspirations. Can almost always be described as accelerationist. They know full well it is at best a lateral transition. And not a transition to an actually better government. So the only way they can achieve motivating people to switch. Is to make the other worse. Capitalists do the same. They’re both children. And neither should be misconstrued with actual small c communists.
None of that has anything to do with horseshoe theory, though, which is the idea that the far left and far right are similar. Homosexuality was decriminalized under Lenin, who was further left than Stalin, who recriminalized it. Your example goes against the original claim.
You should read more about the difference between economic and social legislation. I used that example to illustrate the difference between the two, and the point seems to be lost on you.
Do you disagree with it? I’ve read a good deal of supporting evidence of it being leveraged to create totalitarian dictatorships in the past. It’s not how the far left and right always stand. With enough fear of the opposing side, coupled with blind trust in government, they can align in authoritarianism.
Yes, I disagree with it as any rational and honest person would when looking at the actions, goals, and motivations of the left, center, and right. It’s nonsense touted only by the ill-informed and political hacks who only wish to perserve the status quo and legitimize the bigotry of the far right. Even the Wikipedia article you linked is most full of information about how it is not supported by evidence or the majority of experts
Well, of course I agree that doesn’t apply to the current state of the far left and far right in the US. The far left skews socially libertarian and the far right authoritarian. I understand its application is typically when forming fascist or totalitarian dictatorships. The left will be coerced through fear to push for authoritarian policies in order to protect themselves from the far right. Then that same legislative power later gets wielded against them creating fascism.
That’s also why it’s important that the left stay away from overt censorship legislation. That’s the start of the slippery slope.
Horseshoe theory. The extremes can align in support for authoritarianism due to drive for protective social legislation. Hence the saying, “fascism arrives as your friend.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
It doesn’t apply to this situation however. The right in the US is in the greatest percentage of support for Israel, at 58%.
https://zeteo.com/p/gaza-israel-genocide-poll-ceasefire-us-voters
Horseshoe theory is utter nonsense and devoid of any actual analysis, lol.
I learned about it in a Poli-Sci class decades ago. I’m open to counterpoint. Do you have any?
It’s generally anticommunist propaganda, equating Communists and Anarchists with fascists, as a way to make the liberal status quo seem “rational.” In actuality, there is nothing similar between the far left and the far right. Additionally, the claim that violence is common on the far left and far right when compared to already common violence of liberalism is additionally used to paint leftist structures in a negative light.
It’s anti-communist propaganda in as much as Marxist leninists pretend to be communist without being communist themselves. Giving communist and anarchist a bad name because ML are authoritarian like the fascist.
There is massive similarly between the ML related governments that exist and fascistic governments. The fascists perpetrate oppression and violence for their own sake in the name of capitalists and shareholders. Where ML for their own sake perpetrate oppression and violence against the people in the name of the people. Which somehow manages to be less self consistent than even the fascists.
Assessed as a whole there’s really nothing to recommend ml over many Fascist governments. Too much Freedom’s lost with too little in return.
Communism is an economic system, which doesn’t define social legislation. A social system can go from libertarian, which is full freedom from government legislation, to authoritarian, which is highly legislated social behavior. That is independent of the system of economy, which in the US is defined by more or fewer social programs, or increased or decreased taxation.
Anarchists are socially libertarian by definition. They support full civil liberty, devoid of social legislation.
I understand horseshoe theory as increased social legislation, usually beginning as a way of limiting or censoring “the opposition,” until a new leader takes office and leverages it against their opposition.
That isn’t really true, nor accurate.
Communism, chiefly, is a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society. A world republic where from each’s ability, each’s needs are satisfied. You cannot separate that from the concept of government.
“Authoritarian” and “Libertarian” are vibes-based labels. Capitalism is inherently a system where the majority do not hold power, yet by your definition it could be “libertarian” or “authoritarian.”
Horseshoe theory again is used purely to equate the left with the far-right and uphold the liberal status quo as a “sensible meeting point” and legitimize the violent system.
I’m not familiar with the term vibes-based regarding social legislation. An example of social legislation in a communist nation would be law against homosexuality in Russia. One is independent of the other. Capitalism is also a system of economy, devoid of social legislation inference.
Are you familial with the Nolan Chart? It displays economic legislation on the X axis and social legislation on the Y axis, defining their clear independence. I find it to be helpful in seeing the difference in restrictions to social freedom independent of economic support (or lack thereof).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart
While I am loathe to defend Marxist leninist like cowbee. I think it is important to point out that Russia most certainly is not now communist. Nor has it ever been. And that is the trick with Marxist leninists and their communists parties. Their governments have never been communist. They make lofty arguments about the benefits of communism. But have never once managed to actually transition or move towards transition in a reasonable fashion.
It’s the reason that to a 1. Nearly every person you meet who has Marxist leninist aspirations. Can almost always be described as accelerationist. They know full well it is at best a lateral transition. And not a transition to an actually better government. So the only way they can achieve motivating people to switch. Is to make the other worse. Capitalists do the same. They’re both children. And neither should be misconstrued with actual small c communists.
That’s fair. There’s no definition for civil rights or social restrictions in a form of economy, so I just chose Russia as an example.
None of that has anything to do with horseshoe theory, though, which is the idea that the far left and far right are similar. Homosexuality was decriminalized under Lenin, who was further left than Stalin, who recriminalized it. Your example goes against the original claim.
You should read more about the difference between economic and social legislation. I used that example to illustrate the difference between the two, and the point seems to be lost on you.
Did you just unironically bring up horseshoe theory?
Oh. You did.
Do you disagree with it? I’ve read a good deal of supporting evidence of it being leveraged to create totalitarian dictatorships in the past. It’s not how the far left and right always stand. With enough fear of the opposing side, coupled with blind trust in government, they can align in authoritarianism.
Yes, I disagree with it as any rational and honest person would when looking at the actions, goals, and motivations of the left, center, and right. It’s nonsense touted only by the ill-informed and political hacks who only wish to perserve the status quo and legitimize the bigotry of the far right. Even the Wikipedia article you linked is most full of information about how it is not supported by evidence or the majority of experts
Well, of course I agree that doesn’t apply to the current state of the far left and far right in the US. The far left skews socially libertarian and the far right authoritarian. I understand its application is typically when forming fascist or totalitarian dictatorships. The left will be coerced through fear to push for authoritarian policies in order to protect themselves from the far right. Then that same legislative power later gets wielded against them creating fascism.
That’s also why it’s important that the left stay away from overt censorship legislation. That’s the start of the slippery slope.