I saw a Navy chaplain when I was going through some tough times in the Marines. I told him right off the bat that I was an atheist and he didn’t push any religious shit on me. He just talked to me and worked with my command to get me seen by a trained therapist. Other Marines I knew had similar experiences. Chaplains are officers outside the normal command structure and are trained to provide services to everyone regardless of their faith or lack there of. Also a lot of military members are at least nominally religious so it makes sense to have someone to coordinate religious activity, especially overseas where there aren’t local religious institutions.
It’s pretty fucking childish to label metaphysics “childish.” Don’t conflate the shitty faith that gets shoved down our throats with the average person just trying to establish meaning (until their search for meaning infringes on your rights, of course). It genuinely disgusts me when people of one metaphysical persuasion are so rabidly antagonistic and make sweeping generalizations they’d be super offended about jf someone of a different metaphysical persuasion made about them. Adulthood involves maturation and maturation involves empathy. Get some.
Eww. The foundation that religion rests on is always childish and destructive. It is not possible for anyone who has magical thinking in one realm to not also make terrible decisions in other realms, like voting or other public policy. So that shit always infringes on others.
So prove all metaphysics wrong. Your claim is “all religion is wrong” so you have the burden of proof. If you can’t do it, you’re unable to draw these conclusions. Note that this is loosely equivalent to someone saying “my religion is correct” so you’re going to face the same uphill battle those folks face. It’s a ridiculous and unfounded claim.
I also take umbrage at your unjustified personal attacks on some of my peers from academia and my professional life whose search for meaning has led them to vastly different conclusions than me. Some of the best people I know have faiths I think are dumb yet agree with me on empathy and class struggle. You’ve not empirically proven you have any high ground, much less the moral or societal ones, so you’re really firing half-cocked here.
I understand what you’re doing, but that’s not how that argument works. You can’t even prove metaphysics exists or is a fruitful endeavor (which is hotly argued as irrelevant in academic circles) let alone that the burden is actually on magical believers to justify themselves, not the other way around. Fence sitting while using the kind of language you use tells me you’re a pseudointellectual, which will fool many on here, hence the voting trend, but not all of us.
I don’t think you understand logic. You’re saying “all religion is wrong.” This is a stronger claim than “this specific religion is correct.” See, if someone says “there’s a giant kettle in space,” they need to justify that position. If someone else comes along and says “not only is there no giant kettle in space, there are no valid theories other than my perspective,” now the burden of proof is on the larger claim that everything is wrong and only this singular perspective is correct because, surprise surprise, it’s a repackaging of the first argument with the added attack on everything else.
I’m not on the fence. If you’re not a determinist and you believe in science you’re an idiot. I also understand others might have found meaning in some other way, no matter how dumb it is.
I tried to stick to smaller words this time. Was that better?
Same argument can be made for Atheism which is basically people trying to convince themselves God doesn’t exist just so they can be immoral and live life without consequences. Why should society pander to that?
We do have inherent designed morality, because morality exists and we know of it because of the fruit of the tree in the knowledge of good and evil. So since morality exists and is real, everyone has a knowledge of it from the beginning.
However, Atheism does like to contravene morality and redesign the moral compass to suit whatever agenda someone would like to push. An example being is the dehumanisation of Jews and people being desensitised to violence to perpetuate the holocaust. Showing opposition brought social and political persecution, all to benefit an authoritarian agenda of militarism and not balming themselves.
Or for a more present and relevant example, foetuses being dehumanised and abortion being normalised and showing any opposition to it may bring social persecution, as to benefit a capitalist agenda and being told “it’s for the good of our freedom” while it actually just relieves the state’s responsibility to care for it’s young and to keep young women in wage slavery.
So yes, Atheists can be moral. But my point is- once you throw God’s solid and unchanging word out of the window, you can warp and “normalise” immoral things and do what you want.
I think there’s a requirement to render counseling services to all denominations, including atheists/agnostics, because the chaplain corps is pretty much the closest the Navy gets to mental health care while deployed. Not the greatest system, in all honesty.
Part of the roles of a Navy Chaplain are to provide religious services. This is inherently a religious role, it should not be expected that an atheist or “non-theist” will perform these roles correctly.
Can you be a non-religious chaplain? That feels like discrimination if there’s a religious requirement.
Edit: As of 2018 at least, nope.
I saw a Navy chaplain when I was going through some tough times in the Marines. I told him right off the bat that I was an atheist and he didn’t push any religious shit on me. He just talked to me and worked with my command to get me seen by a trained therapist. Other Marines I knew had similar experiences. Chaplains are officers outside the normal command structure and are trained to provide services to everyone regardless of their faith or lack there of. Also a lot of military members are at least nominally religious so it makes sense to have someone to coordinate religious activity, especially overseas where there aren’t local religious institutions.
And every chaplain i met in the army was a jackass trying to recruit for their religion.
This makes sense, the Navy weren’t the people doing the Crusading.
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It’s pretty fucking childish to label metaphysics “childish.” Don’t conflate the shitty faith that gets shoved down our throats with the average person just trying to establish meaning (until their search for meaning infringes on your rights, of course). It genuinely disgusts me when people of one metaphysical persuasion are so rabidly antagonistic and make sweeping generalizations they’d be super offended about jf someone of a different metaphysical persuasion made about them. Adulthood involves maturation and maturation involves empathy. Get some.
Eww. The foundation that religion rests on is always childish and destructive. It is not possible for anyone who has magical thinking in one realm to not also make terrible decisions in other realms, like voting or other public policy. So that shit always infringes on others.
So prove all metaphysics wrong. Your claim is “all religion is wrong” so you have the burden of proof. If you can’t do it, you’re unable to draw these conclusions. Note that this is loosely equivalent to someone saying “my religion is correct” so you’re going to face the same uphill battle those folks face. It’s a ridiculous and unfounded claim.
I also take umbrage at your unjustified personal attacks on some of my peers from academia and my professional life whose search for meaning has led them to vastly different conclusions than me. Some of the best people I know have faiths I think are dumb yet agree with me on empathy and class struggle. You’ve not empirically proven you have any high ground, much less the moral or societal ones, so you’re really firing half-cocked here.
I understand what you’re doing, but that’s not how that argument works. You can’t even prove metaphysics exists or is a fruitful endeavor (which is hotly argued as irrelevant in academic circles) let alone that the burden is actually on magical believers to justify themselves, not the other way around. Fence sitting while using the kind of language you use tells me you’re a pseudointellectual, which will fool many on here, hence the voting trend, but not all of us.
I don’t think you understand logic. You’re saying “all religion is wrong.” This is a stronger claim than “this specific religion is correct.” See, if someone says “there’s a giant kettle in space,” they need to justify that position. If someone else comes along and says “not only is there no giant kettle in space, there are no valid theories other than my perspective,” now the burden of proof is on the larger claim that everything is wrong and only this singular perspective is correct because, surprise surprise, it’s a repackaging of the first argument with the added attack on everything else.
I’m not on the fence. If you’re not a determinist and you believe in science you’re an idiot. I also understand others might have found meaning in some other way, no matter how dumb it is.
I tried to stick to smaller words this time. Was that better?
Same argument can be made for Atheism which is basically people trying to convince themselves God doesn’t exist just so they can be immoral and live life without consequences. Why should society pander to that?
Belief in a god, gods, or the lack of belief have nothing to do with morality. In fact, most atheists I know seem to have sincere morality.
We do have inherent designed morality, because morality exists and we know of it because of the fruit of the tree in the knowledge of good and evil. So since morality exists and is real, everyone has a knowledge of it from the beginning.
However, Atheism does like to contravene morality and redesign the moral compass to suit whatever agenda someone would like to push. An example being is the dehumanisation of Jews and people being desensitised to violence to perpetuate the holocaust. Showing opposition brought social and political persecution, all to benefit an authoritarian agenda of militarism and not balming themselves.
Or for a more present and relevant example, foetuses being dehumanised and abortion being normalised and showing any opposition to it may bring social persecution, as to benefit a capitalist agenda and being told “it’s for the good of our freedom” while it actually just relieves the state’s responsibility to care for it’s young and to keep young women in wage slavery.
So yes, Atheists can be moral. But my point is- once you throw God’s solid and unchanging word out of the window, you can warp and “normalise” immoral things and do what you want.
I think there’s a requirement to render counseling services to all denominations, including atheists/agnostics, because the chaplain corps is pretty much the closest the Navy gets to mental health care while deployed. Not the greatest system, in all honesty.
Part of the roles of a Navy Chaplain are to provide religious services. This is inherently a religious role, it should not be expected that an atheist or “non-theist” will perform these roles correctly.
Oh look a religious test for a government position… What the fuck.