Good morning.
I am 31 and I scrolled through the pics on facebook from ten years ago and looking at current pictures of people I have no or barely contact to these days and I gotta say I am glad I hopped off that boat a few years ago.
Most of the people I know and hang out with back then were in the “Turbojugend”, kind of a fanclub of Turbonegro and all they (and I) did was get wasted to punk music. Looking back it was fun and don’t regret my early 20s but I am so glad I am not that person anymore.
I still have contact to a few of them and most of them are now 35+ year olds and still drink, party the same way they(we) did ten years ago.
It seems like they are having a blast but I noticed nothing changed. They are the same people they were ten years ago. I noticed it this weekend when I decided to go out to party again and oh man it was enough. I left four hours into the party. Since I don’t think the whole experience was wack. Drunk people yelling in my ear “REMEMBER BACK THEN? THOSE WERE THE YEARS” etc. some dude licking my cheeks smelling like he puked 20 minutes ago (he did) and other people yelling they got erection (song from Turbonegro).
If I look at the pictures they post every weekend I see exhausted people and emptyness. It’s actually so sad… dunno I don’t want to shame them, they are enjoying their lives.
It’s just crazy what alcohol does and the thing is, in this group “Turbojugend” alcohol is so normal. It’s really crazy.
Indeed, alcohol abuse is so normalized it’s scary. I drink occasionally and rarely enjoy getting super drunk but it always annoys me when people base their whole personality off any sort of drug. Some people I otherwise really like would just constantly talk about drugs. It got very tiring and I eventually just stopped hanging out with them.
When I think about it it’s also so weird how it is totally normal to talk about it at work - that someone really needs a drink or needs to drink enough to forget about all the shit decided in a meeting. The same people are digusted by people smoking pot because ‘that’s a drug’.
I like to think of it like this: there’s nothing wrong with alcohol itself, it’s just a drug. It’s what you use it for (escapism?) that fucks you up.
Oh, there are definitely some things wrong with alcohol itself, as for basically any psychotropic substance. I can’t think of one with absolutely zero downsides.
I don’t want to say you should abstain from all substance, in fact I don’t either, though I don’t drink anymore. But current academic consensus is that alcohol is rather harmful compared to other substance (and, in fairness, less harmful than others) and not only is it problematic itself, but also our approach towards it as a society.
Saying there’s nothing wrong with it shifts blame to the affected individual. Meanwhile, companies are raking in billions from sales and not being held accountable for the damage they cause.
Even water can have harmful side effects - you can drown, or get bloated, or dilute your body’s store of catalysts, you can over-work your kidneys, etc. Granted, water has fewer side effects than most things you could put into your body:-).
Alcohol can be used well though - e.g. half a serving not even every day has been shown to have fantastic benefits, especially when it is red wine and the recipient is male (though it is unclear whether that is any better than just red grapes, although even if not, the latter can get quite expensive). e.g. it can help to alleviate stress, and lowers blood pressure (ofc it can also raise stress if used improperly, e.g. if you combine drinking with driving).
You are correct ofc in the pedantic sense that caution is warranted, as with any drug - I am not saying otherwise, and I would have communicated more properly with less room for misunderstanding if I had said not that there is “nothing wrong with alcohol” but rather more that “the issue has less to do with the alcohol”, compared to the escapism. e.g. OP said things like this:
I see exhausted people and emptyness.
Which in addition to alcohol people could achieve this state by over reliance on games, work, religion, family or other things if likewise improperly applied. Ian Danskin (Innuendo Studios) has a fascinating albeit quite long video explanation relevant to this topic showing a variety of ways someone can fuck up their own life + that of everyone else around them. e.g. Brexit did not involve alcohol, nor did electing Donald Trump, nor does climate change or capitalism need alcohol to kill us all and perhaps end humanity’s tenure on planet Earth. But “escapism” did in fact do all of those things (being a necessary component when if not fully sufficient all on its own to be the sole cause), and thus is a far worse culprit to be aware of than a mere few ounces of some drug.
TLDR: don’t lose sight of the forest for the sake of the trees: alcohol is nowhere close to the primary danger in this discussion. Though yes, as with any drug, caution is advised, good point.
Even water can have harmful side effects - you can drown, or get bloated, or dilute your body’s store of catalysts, you can over-work your kidneys, etc. Granted, water has fewer side effects than most things you could put into your body:-).
Water however is something the body absolutely requires and if it’s fit for consumption (e.g. clean, not distilled, etc) has no downsides when consumed in the required amount. There’s no metric that gets better without drinking water compared to with. Also, the possibility of drowning in isn’t limited to water, but rather a property of all(?) liquids.
Alcohol can be used well though - e.g. half a serving not even every day has been shown to have fantastic benefits, especially when it is red wine and the recipient is male (though it is unclear whether that is any better than just red grapes, although even if not, the latter can get quite expensive). e.g. it can help to alleviate stress, and lowers blood pressure (ofc it can also raise stress if used improperly, e.g. if you combine drinking with driving).
I’m not aware of any such studies living up to current scientific standards, which is why the WHO now states that there’s no safe level for consumption. https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health note that this is mostly about cancer only, not the other detrimental effects:
there are no studies that would demonstrate that the potential beneficial effects of light and moderate drinking on cardiovascular diseases and type 2 diabetes outweigh the cancer risk associated with these same levels of alcohol consumption for individual consumers.
For studies showing a positive effect, it has recently been claimed that there are issues with how the control group, consisting of people who don’t drink, is selected, which this quote on the article hints at:
“Potential protective effects of alcohol consumption, suggested by some studies, are tightly connected with the comparison groups chosen and the statistical methods used, and may not consider other relevant factors”
Because often, the group of non-drinkers contains ex-drinkers who stopped drinking because of the negative health impact from drinking. So you’re comparing a moderate to light drinker (selective from the first group) to the average of the second group, which is problematic because of the previously mentioned fact.
Escapism is part of the human nature, and so is the desire to do drugs, the latter not even exclusive to humans. Both are fine in moderation.
Again, idc about it very much, but shifting away all responsibility from the substance and by extension, the profiteers, towards the sometimes uneducated users is just wrong, and creates a stigma for those who are affected by a dependence on alcohol and its effects detrimental to health. A substance that can have these effects just be at least partially to blame.
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I’m 40 now and have been in recovery for over 8 years. A lot of people in my old circles never stopped partying, and many of them aren’t with us any more. I feel like I see a new tribute popping up every couple weeks on social media. More of my friends are dying than my parents’ friends.
I’m on a medication used typically for alcohol cessation, but I’m on it for another reason (anxiety disorder). I now can’t really drink beyond one drink, and so much of it tastes bitter. I never was much of a drinker prior, but now I really don’t get it.
I not only don’t like drinking myself because it tastes awful and makes me feel like shit, I don’t really like being around others who are drinking because drunk people are, at best, simply obnoxious and at worse straight up abusive. It’s hard to make friends with this stance since drinking is so fuckin’ normalized.
I can understand this. I get weird looks and teased for declining drinks or admitting that alcohol taste bad to me - I can’t tolerate it, it’s bad for a medical condition of mine and I’m not going to pretend to be someone I’m not just to fit in (the compromise is me getting a soft drink or water while the others drink what they want).
On the other had, I’ve had drunk family friends that were a pain to deal with, been cursed at by a drunken villager one time and had our property littered with beer bottles and other trash when they’ve been parties in our area.
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If you’re not a drunk, why are you taking my opinion of drunk people so personally, when it doesn’t apply to you? I don’t need to read your mind or body language to tell you’re a prick, because I can see that you are after you went off on an insulting tirade simply because I don’t like hanging out with drunk people, because I find them obnoxious.
How much did you have to drink before commenting? That’s a rhetorical question, BTW. I’ve already blocked you.
Dude the comments in this thread are WILD, like calm down, some people just don’t like to drink.
Right. Very childish across the board. To the OP, find your new people, those that you want to grow with. It’s OK to move on. Maybe check in with the people you care about but you don’t have to surround yourself with them.
I don’t want to criticize you or your opinion; your views are entirely valid.
I just want to get this off my chest: I am sick and tired of people who want to “grow”. Unbound, needless growth is the attitude that brought us into climate change. I would rather have people waste themselves every weekend, than people who put “growth” about everything else.
Growth at all costs is bad. Slow, steady growth is natural and encouraged. The economy grows, but so does a forest. Something as broad as “growth” should not be characterized in a singular way like you’re doing, especially when you seem to consider natural growth to be “unbound” and “needless”, when it is not.
You should rest, but you should not stagnate.
I think there’s kind of a difference between growing as a person, emotionally, intellectually, interpersonally, etc, and growing as a species and building as much as we can as big as possible. Those aren’t the same thing, and one of them comes with consequences for the world and humanity where the other does not…
It seems odd to me to lump them together
Is this what the kids call based?
