The futuristic city with flying cars at the beginning of the movie definitely has all the cyberpunk visuals, and technically Zorg is the head of an evil corporation. But the real villain of the movie is incoming force of evil/darkness. And the plot is resolved through the power of love. Even the President of Earth is actively trying to help do the right thing and save the planet.
While there are some great cyberpunk visuals at the beginning of the movie, I don’t know if the themes are there to call this cyberpunk. What do you think? Would you consider The Fifth Element to be cyberpunk?
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It’s not a cyberpunk story, but it’s a cyberpunk world.
Ooh very succinct.
Simple and accurate, I agree with this.
TV Tropes calls it Cassette Futurism, which is part cyberpunk.
I wouldn’t. It has a great dystopian setting, and the visuals are totally cyberpunk, but the antagonist isn’t an embodiment of The System That’s Grinding The People Down (I don’t think? It’s been a while since I’ve seen it). Also, the government has a degree of power, and isn’t corrupt/defanged by evil corps.
I also think of cyberpunk stories as operating on smaller, human scales (e.g. the stakes in Blade Runner are personal), whereas the Fifth Element deals with THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PLANET EARTH. I think. It’s been a while.
Having said all that, lots of people like it, and if you will enjoy it more if it’s cyberpunk, then I agree, it’s 100% cyberpunk.
While I agree with your other points, I’d argue that Jean-Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg is part of the system grinding people down, and the government is pretty feckless.
To the first point, Corbin Dallas is fired from a taxi company run by Zorg. He’s the head of a massive conglomerate that does everything from taxis to weapons sales.
To the second, while the government does have power Zorg also has a bug (literal and technological) in their war room, which shows while they might not be subordinate to Zorg the government isn’t powerful enough to prevent this sort of thing. Also, the government ends up failing in their mission to save the planet.
However, there’s also magic in the universe and, as you said, they’re saving the earth from destruction and not overthrowing Zorg, so I wouldn’t call it cyberpunk.
Totally fair. It’s been a long time since I saw the movie.
To the second, while the government does have power Zorg also has a bug (literal and technological) in their war room, which shows while they might not be subordinate to Zorg the government isn’t powerful enough to prevent this sort of thing. Also, the government ends up failing in their mission to save the planet.
There’s an interesting question here. IMO government’s loss of control is a big part of cyberpunk, because it kinda/sorta shows people have lost power to corporations.
I was going to say that governments are usually absent/background in cyberpunk, but then you have Deckard (Blade Runner) who is employed as a cop.
But whatever. It’s a genre, so there are no rules, only commonalities.
I know this is a very old thread, but cops being essentially legalized corporate forces empowered by law is also very cyberpunk.
I dont think it is fleshed out if the government in blade runner isnt actually a corporate puppet that exists to create the legal framework the corpos behind it desire, especially if it turns out the blade runner and alien universes are one and the same as ridley scott suggests.
In that case the government would be subservient to weyland yutani, who are nonchalantly able to deploy government military personnel as they see fit.
Both are good. From a genre perspective it shows that corporations have taken over. I like the idea of corporate militaries, but corps influential enough to tell governments what to do hews closer to reality.
Here is a good cut list comparing the 1981 version and the more recent version.
Consider some other cyber punk classics that are contemporaneous with the older version: Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Robocop, and Bladerunner. The older version hits many of the same beats story wise, especially with Bladerunner and Robocop. They have that very crime-drama/ film noir styleing, that the source material very much so has. Also, the original I think does show System Thats Grinding People Down, and the corrupt/ defanged system by corrupt cops. For example, Corban has to bribe a cop to get any services in the original, is turned into a cop refusing to act until he gets his McDonalds served to him in the more modern version.
I personally consider the original to be a cyberpunk classic that actually helped form/ shape the genre, but like many genre defining pieces, it doesn’t actually perfectly fit what the genre becomes. I mean you figure bladerunner comes out almost two years after the original fifth element comes out as a short in the Heavy Metal movie.
I didn’t realize it was a remake of a Heavy Metal short. Thanks for the link!
You’d probably like the most upvoted answer if you haven’t seen it.
Been a while since I’ve seen it, but one thing that I’m remembering differently than a lot of folks in this thread is that I don’t remember it being outright dystopian. Sure, evil corp and all. But Earth government isn’t really evil, the arts are still cherished, and while life seems hard it seems more like a dysfunctional society than a dystopia. Just my take though (and doesn’t address OP’s question).
My fun anecdote is that maybe 10 years back I got a free LaserDisc player. The local library happened to have The Fifth Element on LD, so naturally I rented it. You had to request media at the front desk, so I wrote down the call number and he returned with a very confused look — “you know this is LaserDisc, not DVD or Blu-ray? Like, it’s…really big.” Not the same quality as Blu-ray, but was definitely more fun :)
What kind of punk restricts themselves to “punk rules”?
Lawful punk?
old punks?
Gimmedacasshhh
Negative, I am a meat popsicle
Please place your hands in the yellow circles
That’s…a… very nice hat.
“You like ittt?”
dances
Not a lot of cyber in it, more just sci-fi.
CyberPop
I typically view cyberpunk as a world dressing that acts more as a backdrop and I think The Fifth Element fits it pretty well.
I feel like the rest of it kind of just layers on. Kind of like the game Cloudpunk. It’s set in a futuristic dystopian world that reminds me a lot of Blade Runner but feels a lot like a mystery and adventure game. The cyberpunk aspect doesn’t feel like it’s the most notable part.
This is a very fair take on the whole genre influence thing. More aesthetic similarities yet less story mechanics that are found to define genres. Let’s give open creativity a chance before we stick some label on that produces low effort drudgery.
Very true. Just like there’s high fantasy vs low fantasy, there’s almost a “cyberpunk by aesthetic” and “cyberpunk by themes” distinction in cyberpunk.
I think it definitely is, especially if you go back to the original Heavy Metal source material. Its just a very 1970’s/ New York portrayal of what Cyber Punk can be. The original material is also very much more in the film noir/ crime drama vein, which also aligns with some older cyber punk classics like Ghost in the Shell, Robocop, Total Recall, Bladerunner, etc.
The 90’s version is brighter and more up beat than the 1970s version, but are actually pretty close overall. My assessment is totally cyberpunk, just not the narrow view of what cyber punk actually is. Its story hits the right beats and the world is the right size, shape and feel. I think both the original material and the new material are very much cyber punk.
Here is a youtube video comparing the elements of both the 1970s Fifth element and the more recent one.
One of my favorite movies. I really don’t consider it cyberpunk but I also wouldn’t say it’s not. It’s got a lot of the aesthetic theme and it’s dystopian but it’s not got much else.
Its more sci-fi fantasy if i had to pick a genre
My vote would be no. Just straight up sci-fi.
I’m just here to say when I saw this as a kid, I had a massive crush on the President’s Aide.
Is that the total number scenes they are in?
Like, so specific…
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I think Hammerjack is trying to inject a little life into our community. They contribute a tonne, so let’s roll with it.
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Like the other person said, I’m just trying to start a discussion. I don’t actually care what the answer is, I’m just providing a topic. I try to find movies where i could see the arguments for and against being cyberpunk and I’ll post it here to see how others feel.
Honestly, I consider these posts a success if the top two comments are “of course it is!” and “of course not!” because that means i picked a good movie that walks the line between cyberpunk and not and typically leads to a good discussion.
Also, I’ve been trying to post something here every day for almost three months now and it’s hard to keep coming up with items that fall firmly into the cyberpunk category. So I start to question how I define cyberpunk and these posts help quantify it.
Yo, I really appreciate your efforts. Lemmy can be a ghost town. Folks like you are what bring it life.
I also appreciate your shout-outs. I’m putting a bunch of movies from this community on my watch list.
