The majority of illegal immigrants enter legally as say tourists then just don’t go back(becoming illegal). The other main option is any sort of boat because the US has a gigantic coastline. If they didn’t find jobs in the US or could make a living in their home country they wouldn’t try and come to the US. But they get hired to do those jobs Americans don’t want to do, which ends up being a lot of seasonal work and more unhealthy work (like grinding countertops).
UBI would not solve this problem, it should be implemented for other reasons though.
Citizens have jobs that they will basically not take regardless of pay. In particular seasonal and rural farm work means even paying 40 or 50 an hour often isn’t enough of a draw to get enough American workers to work a 10-12h day in the summer sun in bumfuck nowhere for a month. Then next month somewhere else. Not to mention a lack of resources and the general living conditions available. This lack of draw would only be more true if basic needs are covered. You can be pickier about work if your basics are met.
Maybe 40-50 an hour for one month isn’t a good enough draw because if you don’t get another job immediately you begin the spiral back into poverty. Stability is more important to most people.
I dont think that follows. If I had UBI, a supermarket would have to pay a lot more than it did when I worked there during uni. I only worked there because it was the thing that was available to keep a roof over my head and food on the table. It was miserable especially for the pay. No way in hell id do it for less if those needs were covered.
In my mind UBI actually would have to make wages more competitive to attract people who want to earn extra but aren’t forced into shitty jobs.
That doesn’t make any sense. Why would a job have to pay you more when your basic necessities are covered? It’s literally extra fucking around money. It’s life style money, not living money.
Imagine all your essenital expenses are paid. Are you going to not do any work, or are you going to go do a job so you can afford a better lifestyle?
The best part is that the free market actually needs to do what people claim it does and regulate itself.
If no one is willing to work for $4/hour for spending money, then no one will. The business needs to adapt or die, not the citizen needing to cope or die.
But if someone is willing to do that job, it’s truly of their free will.
If no one is willing to work for $4/hour for spending money, then no one will. The business needs to adapt or die, not the citizen needing to cope or die.
I mean… yea? They need to adapt their wages… to be more competitive and attract employees who now don’t need to work to survive…
That doesn’t make any sense. Why would a job have to pay you more when your basic necessities are covered? It’s literally extra fucking around money. It’s life stylemoney, not living money.
Because employees can choose not to work for shit money, they can take time to find something more chill or spend time to elevate their qualifications.
Imagine all your essenital expenses are paid. Are you going to not do any work, or are you going to go do a job so you can afford a better lifestyle?
Again, a supermarket would have to pay a decent chunk over minimum wage for me to consider every going there for leisure/lifestyle money.
So you literally only want food & shelter? You have no desire to eat from a restaurant, or drink an unnecessary beverage, or watch a movie, or see a play, or travel beyond where you can walk, or any minor luxury if it meant having to work at a grocery store?
Wouldn’t you argue that someone working at a grocery store or any other current minimum wage job should be able to do all that with just minimum wage? Then why not UBI and less than minimum wage?
I am not saying I, or others, do not have that desire. But why would they want to spend 8 hours a day being miserable to be barely able to afford those things? If a person has any ability to delay gratification, I do not see why they would work for a subpar wage, especially at a job that sucks. Which is why wages must be more competitive to to be able to sustain a workforce under a UBI system.
Hell, and its not even just jobs that suck per se. I would quit being a doctor and probably go back to landscaping if all I needed was lifestyle money. The pay was good enough for that sort of a thing and the work was super chill. Granted this is partly because medicine doesn’t pay as well as it ought to over here, but that is kind of the point. Why would I do something for inadequate pay when I can do something else for adequate pay?
Adding to what all the others said, majority of those who cross the border on foot are asylum seekers, and even if they don’t have documents, they are still in the country legally until the court makes a decision on their asylum claim.
Why do we need to dehumanize them? Words like “illegals” remove the personhood from the group, is it really that difficult to just use two words instead of one?
Coming into the country legally, with a passport even, is not an issue.
Most undocumented immigrants in the US enter legally then never leave.
The idea that most cross the border on foot isn’t supported by data.
The majority of illegal immigrants enter legally as say tourists then just don’t go back(becoming illegal). The other main option is any sort of boat because the US has a gigantic coastline. If they didn’t find jobs in the US or could make a living in their home country they wouldn’t try and come to the US. But they get hired to do those jobs Americans don’t want to do, which ends up being a lot of seasonal work and more unhealthy work (like grinding countertops).
Socialism, ironically, is the best solution to such a right wing issue.
You could eliminate the vast majority of illegal immigration and scrap minimum wage by implementing a livable UBI.
Why pay an immigrant more money in cash when you could pay a citizen less because their basic needs are already covered?
UBI would not solve this problem, it should be implemented for other reasons though.
Citizens have jobs that they will basically not take regardless of pay. In particular seasonal and rural farm work means even paying 40 or 50 an hour often isn’t enough of a draw to get enough American workers to work a 10-12h day in the summer sun in bumfuck nowhere for a month. Then next month somewhere else. Not to mention a lack of resources and the general living conditions available. This lack of draw would only be more true if basic needs are covered. You can be pickier about work if your basics are met.
Maybe 40-50 an hour for one month isn’t a good enough draw because if you don’t get another job immediately you begin the spiral back into poverty. Stability is more important to most people.
I dont think that follows. If I had UBI, a supermarket would have to pay a lot more than it did when I worked there during uni. I only worked there because it was the thing that was available to keep a roof over my head and food on the table. It was miserable especially for the pay. No way in hell id do it for less if those needs were covered.
In my mind UBI actually would have to make wages more competitive to attract people who want to earn extra but aren’t forced into shitty jobs.
That doesn’t make any sense. Why would a job have to pay you more when your basic necessities are covered? It’s literally extra fucking around money. It’s life style money, not living money.
Imagine all your essenital expenses are paid. Are you going to not do any work, or are you going to go do a job so you can afford a better lifestyle?
The best part is that the free market actually needs to do what people claim it does and regulate itself.
If no one is willing to work for $4/hour for spending money, then no one will. The business needs to adapt or die, not the citizen needing to cope or die.
But if someone is willing to do that job, it’s truly of their free will.
I mean… yea? They need to adapt their wages… to be more competitive and attract employees who now don’t need to work to survive…
Because employees can choose not to work for shit money, they can take time to find something more chill or spend time to elevate their qualifications.
Again, a supermarket would have to pay a decent chunk over minimum wage for me to consider every going there for leisure/lifestyle money.
So you literally only want food & shelter? You have no desire to eat from a restaurant, or drink an unnecessary beverage, or watch a movie, or see a play, or travel beyond where you can walk, or any minor luxury if it meant having to work at a grocery store?
Wouldn’t you argue that someone working at a grocery store or any other current minimum wage job should be able to do all that with just minimum wage? Then why not UBI and less than minimum wage?
I am not saying I, or others, do not have that desire. But why would they want to spend 8 hours a day being miserable to be barely able to afford those things? If a person has any ability to delay gratification, I do not see why they would work for a subpar wage, especially at a job that sucks. Which is why wages must be more competitive to to be able to sustain a workforce under a UBI system.
Hell, and its not even just jobs that suck per se. I would quit being a doctor and probably go back to landscaping if all I needed was lifestyle money. The pay was good enough for that sort of a thing and the work was super chill. Granted this is partly because medicine doesn’t pay as well as it ought to over here, but that is kind of the point. Why would I do something for inadequate pay when I can do something else for adequate pay?
Adding to what all the others said, majority of those who cross the border on foot are asylum seekers, and even if they don’t have documents, they are still in the country legally until the court makes a decision on their asylum claim.
Are you sure about that? Looks like that is the main way illegals get into the country
“Illegals” lol
Wish there were a PC one word name for “undocumented immigrants”. Undocumenteds? Undocs? Unims?
Why do we need to dehumanize them? Words like “illegals” remove the personhood from the group, is it really that difficult to just use two words instead of one?
‘PC’, dude are you a Nazi from 1996?
No, I’m a mac!
I legally entered from Canada on a plane, passport and implied tourist visa. I then overstayed my visa, and was an illegal immigrant for a while.
A wall along the southern border doesn’t do shit.
You entered legally, great. So the US knew who you were and that you were entering the country.
Shame on you for over staying though.
That’s how the vast majority of undocumented immigrants get here.
I see a lot of people saying that but have yet to find the statistics they’re referring to.
I mean, it doesn’t take much to verify: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us