As an aside, if light stopped too, wouldn’t that mean that the world would be plunged into darkness?
Photons of light reflect off of objects, and into our eyes before being converted into electrical signals by the brain and translated into visuals that we see. But to do this, photons and electrical signals need to be able to move through time and space. So if time is stopped, and light is stopped with it, none of that other stuff happens, and we all would effectively be blind. No?
Photons would still exist, they’d just be frozen in a cloud. You could “see” things by moving towards photon sources, but you’d leave a black fog behind you, and would never be able to see the samething twice.
The scenario doesn’t really make sense as the electro-chemical activity in your brain would be stopped as well, so you couldn’t be conscious.
But if we suspend disbelief, you could say that you’re stuck with the image that got to your retina when time stopped. Which means that you couldn’t see the protagonist moving!
Also, realistically, he couldn’t even move as he’d be against a barrier of unmovable air.
I think a more reasonable interpretation is for time o have been slowed to an extreme extent: a factor of 10^6 would mean the 6 months of protagonist time would’ve been experienced as 15 seconds of bystander time, and light would be slowed down to about 1000 km/h, still substantially faster than a human can move unaided to avoid Cherenkov radiation.
To avoid friction fires, we have an Alcubierre (warp) bubble of fast space out around the protag. Let’s say about 6 inches for reasons, and with a smooth gradient between protag time and slowed time. This is also necessary to prevent shear forces from tearing up everything the protag touches.
This should handle most situations well: the protagonist can manipulate and interact with typical objects with their hands and other body parts without instantly exploding them or shearing them in half. However, humans that the protag directly interacts with will end up experiencing much more clock-time during the interaction, potentially even within the human reaction time of 250ms given a dedicated amount of attention.
Okay but assuming the other laws of the universe remain in play, if light has been slowed down 186 times, then you won’t be walking 3 miles an hour you will be walking 3,000 miles an hour, and anything you do to people will be unbelievably violent.
Like if you walk into the shower room where girls are showering and play with their breasts, after time unfreezes they’re probably all going to die very quickly or at the very least suffer horrendous damage.
If you slap the kid that picked on you in 6th grade, his head may fly off or his spine may snap at his neck but one way or the other he’s most likely going to die.
And even after you revert time to its normal flow, everywhere you have gone is going to suffer multiple shock waves as the air your body has displaced and the vacuums you have left behind in your trail collapse back together.
Doors that you’ve opened will fly off hinges. Windows you have closed will shatter.
But thank God you chose only 1/1000th speed. If you had chosen 1/100,000th, you might have destroyed the entire planet.
hence the Alcubierre bubble! everything you directly interact with is sped up to your time speed so that you’re only ever interacting with normal-paced matter, and then as you leave the area everything gradually slows back down to near-stop
but where do we keep the multiple stars worth of energy necessary for the Alcubierre drive? Something like −1064 kg converted to energy, I mean, I got pockets in my pants but I don’t think they’ll hold that
So either six months of sleep paralysis or you experience six months of time in the instant that time returns, possibly mentally handicapping people from the sensation. Yeah, OP better go into hiding, anyone who survives will hunt them down - regardless of what they do.
I would have at least visited museums and the likes in cities I can’t afford to visit, as well as making food with all the tasty high quality ingredients I can’t afford.
Maybe drive around on some expensive motorbike just to see how it feels. If my financial situation at the time was especially dire, maybe take a “loan” from a bank somewhere before unfreezing time.
You’d have to be a saint to have that power and not do anything illegal. But one thing I would never do is fuck over regular people, only corporations and big businesses. After time unfreezes, those can recover from whatever I did and I doubt I’d but a significant dent in their profit margins, but regular people would have to live with the consequences of what I did, so that’s a no go.
Eh, I honestly probably wouldn’t do much. If we’re going with the typical “time stop” rules where people just lock up and the days never change (trying to not think too hard about the physics), I would probably just work on a lot of hobbies that I don’t have time for normally.
That’s really boring, so I guess that says a lot about me… Now I’m sad.
Depends, what would happen if I stopped time in a moving car? Like if I were to stop time when that one car was swerving in and out of traffic, almost hit someone, then flicked them off?
If I stopped time then would I still be carried by the momentum and splat against the inside of my car leaving everyone frozen forever or undo time stop and some freak accident is talked about on the news?
Or do I get to stop time while they’re flipping the bird, pull their car off to the side of the road, take off their tires, fill their gas tank with sugar, then swipe their offending finger in their butt crack and leave it pressed against their upper lip?
What if you spent your frozen time, determining the problems of everyone in the world, and solving them? So, when everybody got unfrozen, it was a utopia.
People may say “you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs”, but would the eggs agree ? With hindsight you might become seen as a hero, but I doubt that would change the immediate hatred people would feel upon release from half a year of bondage within oneself.
Dude you can get in trouble for doing a lot of things that aren’t a criminal sex act. There’s so much more out there! Doing H until you nod out in public, stealing products, playing guitar after 10pm, orchestrating dog fights, gambling on when elderly people will die, driving a type I school bus with a physical on file that’s two years and ten days old, the possibility are endless.
I respect people’s consent in the scenario where it’s something they experience or are affected by it. I’d imagine frozen time is consequence free zone for everyone.
Yes this is fantasy but what you’re effectively stating here is that if you don’t get caught it’s not wrong. The same argument would justify groping a deep sleeper, do you think that’s not wrong?
No, not really. I’m saying that if there’s zero effect for the would-be victim, I can’t see them being wronged. I think time freeze is probably not the right scenario for this though. They’d be physically affected. Copying them in an simulation type thing is more along the lines of what I’d consider harmless.
Unfortunately for me, I feel like if I thought I could get away with something consequences free, I’d probably do it. I’m not proud of that aspect of my morality, but I’d be lying if I denied it.
That said, I remind myself that if I’m too ashamed to do it under the scrutiny of people, then it is 100% not something I’m doing. That goes for simulations as well. Because there is always a chance someone will find out… and frankly, I don’t think I could live with myself.
That’s a very honest and self reflective stance that I think a lot of people would agree with. I don’t think it’s a moral failing, much of morality is putting aside your basic instinct and desire in favor of your rational mind realizing what’s best for you and society at large.
People have empathy to varying degrees and it’s something that needs training just like any other skill. Acknowledging where you have gaps and working rationally around those gaps is how you become a moral person. I don’t think you were necessarily being hard on yourself but others feeling the same way might be so I figured I’d share this perspective.
Well thank you for that assurance. It’s a scary thing to admit to, especially when you see people around you who seemingly do not struggle with this sort of thing. The whole, “I don’t need a book/law to tell me what’s right or wrong,” are lucky in that respect.
I don’t think any individual is implicitly moral with regards to everything. I’m not suggesting everyone has the same hidden desires but I believe everyone has some instinctive behaviors and thoughts that they need to challenge rationally in some way or another. Philosophical frameworks for morality wouldn’t exist or be debated if it was unusual to need a rational framework for moral behavior.
Unless somehow every harm someone inflicted on another somehow affected themselves in the same way there’ll always be a selfish instinct that has to be overcome. If it was easy it wouldn’t be something to admire and respect as part of one’s character.
Nah, people will judge you for totally harmless shit. Their judgement doesn’t mean you’re wrong. People hide their gayness or niche religions under the everything of people and they should not have to.
Who said anything about rape? Also clearly you can figure out morality without it being external judgement. You’re coming at me with a chip on your shoulder.
You’re once again relying on the fact that someone won’t find out in order for you to feel that you’ve gotten away with it. That’s not a moral act, that’s an immoral act that has gone by unnoticed.
Maybe you’re not hurt by me jerking it to you but you’d be hurt by another violation of your identity like me impersonating you to call your mother names and hurt her feelings. Those are both violations of you, and they’re ways of using you as a means to a selfish end.
Philosophical moral frameworks which people tend to follow include the idea that human beings shouldn’t be used as a means to an end.
We can tweak your example to one where the simulation is of someone that doesn’t exist and there’d be even less to call into question, but maybe at that point you feel you wouldn’t get the same thrill… That thrill is a sign that you’re being immoral.
You’re probably young and will hopefully continue to develop mentally and emotionally and will learn empathy, but your views here are problematic.
I do get you’re trying to get at consent is key, but your argument is flawed in that using a simulated copy to insult one’s mom still brings a real person into it
Use a digital copy of me to hurt people, yeah I’d be upset
Use a digital copy of me as a sex toy? I’d be fine with that
Installing hidden cameras in a public toilet is harmless by that definition as long as they never get discovered, but would still be highly immoral. I don’t think you’ve thought this through. People’s right to decide what happens to their body extends to things like who can see it rather than just who can physically touch it.
Religious people all think there’s a god watching them 24/7 and seem fine with that. Those same religious people didn’t seem to think I should get to decide to keep my foreskin.
The thing about the bathroom camera is that it’s like content piracy, and I personally don’t really care to engage in business of that nature. If you’re selling it, I don’t want it. I’m not more likely to pay just because I didn’t get it for free.
I’m more concerned about the nature of law and enforcement in relation to this kind of privacy breaches. The law can and will act on shit, and they need to be as restrained as we can get them. I’m never worried about embarrassing myself around a rational thinker. I’m worried of embarrassing myself around irrational judgement from people who will hurt me or make my life worse. The only real situation where I’m not worried about being watched is by people who straight up cannot do anything with what they see. No talking, no sharing, etc… I don’t wanna hear distant snickers from people who know what I’ve put in my butt.
thats fine with me, since im not sick in the head, and i respect people’s consent
This is a 4Chan user
Sounds like the type of thing the sickest fuck in the room would say to avoid suspicion
That’s funny because this sounds like the type of thing the sickest fuck in the room would say to avoid suspicion
Recursion: see recursion
And that’s why I haven’t said anything. Now no one will realize that I’m the sickest fuck of them all.
That’s my thought every time someone virtue signaling
Didn’t even think about this. I thought of how crushingly boring and annoying it must have been to have been unable to move at all. For 6 months.
And now I realize it must have been dreadful, at first.
Imagine if your one of the thousands of people who would likely happen to have the sun in their eyes at the instant of freezing.
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Depending on the exact moment you might assume you died and the ecstasy you were feeling was an afterlife.
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Good thing is that since time has stopped, you won’t get your eyes burnt since light stopped travelling as well.
As an aside, if light stopped too, wouldn’t that mean that the world would be plunged into darkness?
Photons of light reflect off of objects, and into our eyes before being converted into electrical signals by the brain and translated into visuals that we see. But to do this, photons and electrical signals need to be able to move through time and space. So if time is stopped, and light is stopped with it, none of that other stuff happens, and we all would effectively be blind. No?
Yes, see my other answer.
Photons would still exist, they’d just be frozen in a cloud. You could “see” things by moving towards photon sources, but you’d leave a black fog behind you, and would never be able to see the samething twice.
Does this mean everything would be dark?
The scenario doesn’t really make sense as the electro-chemical activity in your brain would be stopped as well, so you couldn’t be conscious.
But if we suspend disbelief, you could say that you’re stuck with the image that got to your retina when time stopped. Which means that you couldn’t see the protagonist moving!
Also, realistically, he couldn’t even move as he’d be against a barrier of unmovable air.
I think a more reasonable interpretation is for time o have been slowed to an extreme extent: a factor of 10^6 would mean the 6 months of protagonist time would’ve been experienced as 15 seconds of bystander time, and light would be slowed down to about 1000 km/h, still substantially faster than a human can move unaided to avoid Cherenkov radiation.
To avoid friction fires, we have an Alcubierre (warp) bubble of fast space out around the protag. Let’s say about 6 inches for reasons, and with a smooth gradient between protag time and slowed time. This is also necessary to prevent shear forces from tearing up everything the protag touches.
This should handle most situations well: the protagonist can manipulate and interact with typical objects with their hands and other body parts without instantly exploding them or shearing them in half. However, humans that the protag directly interacts with will end up experiencing much more clock-time during the interaction, potentially even within the human reaction time of 250ms given a dedicated amount of attention.
Okay but assuming the other laws of the universe remain in play, if light has been slowed down 186 times, then you won’t be walking 3 miles an hour you will be walking 3,000 miles an hour, and anything you do to people will be unbelievably violent.
Like if you walk into the shower room where girls are showering and play with their breasts, after time unfreezes they’re probably all going to die very quickly or at the very least suffer horrendous damage.
If you slap the kid that picked on you in 6th grade, his head may fly off or his spine may snap at his neck but one way or the other he’s most likely going to die.
And even after you revert time to its normal flow, everywhere you have gone is going to suffer multiple shock waves as the air your body has displaced and the vacuums you have left behind in your trail collapse back together.
Doors that you’ve opened will fly off hinges. Windows you have closed will shatter.
But thank God you chose only 1/1000th speed. If you had chosen 1/100,000th, you might have destroyed the entire planet.
hence the Alcubierre bubble! everything you directly interact with is sped up to your time speed so that you’re only ever interacting with normal-paced matter, and then as you leave the area everything gradually slows back down to near-stop
I like it.
but where do we keep the multiple stars worth of energy necessary for the Alcubierre drive? Something like −1064 kg converted to energy, I mean, I got pockets in my pants but I don’t think they’ll hold that
Since FTL breaks casualuty, it can just be along any spacelike curve!
if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it.
Does that mean that when photons stop moving, nobody can see them?
That’s basically sleep paralysis.
So either six months of sleep paralysis or you experience six months of time in the instant that time returns, possibly mentally handicapping people from the sensation. Yeah, OP better go into hiding, anyone who survives will hunt them down - regardless of what they do.
not me. i would have done some nasty shit.
genuinely asking: what sort of things do you mean, and why ?
i would pee in people’s drawers because i don’t think that happens enough.
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a little bit of both. but primarily in their nightstand drawers.
good luck getting anymore in mine!
“Honey! There’s pee in my pee drawer, and it isn’t MINE!”
I would have at least visited museums and the likes in cities I can’t afford to visit, as well as making food with all the tasty high quality ingredients I can’t afford.
Maybe drive around on some expensive motorbike just to see how it feels. If my financial situation at the time was especially dire, maybe take a “loan” from a bank somewhere before unfreezing time.
You’d have to be a saint to have that power and not do anything illegal. But one thing I would never do is fuck over regular people, only corporations and big businesses. After time unfreezes, those can recover from whatever I did and I doubt I’d but a significant dent in their profit margins, but regular people would have to live with the consequences of what I did, so that’s a no go.
i see that we have different ideas about what ‘nasty’ means :)
A saint to not break laws? Laws are not morality, often they run directly counter to morality.
Eh, I honestly probably wouldn’t do much. If we’re going with the typical “time stop” rules where people just lock up and the days never change (trying to not think too hard about the physics), I would probably just work on a lot of hobbies that I don’t have time for normally.
That’s really boring, so I guess that says a lot about me… Now I’m sad.
Depends, what would happen if I stopped time in a moving car? Like if I were to stop time when that one car was swerving in and out of traffic, almost hit someone, then flicked them off?
If I stopped time then would I still be carried by the momentum and splat against the inside of my car leaving everyone frozen forever or undo time stop and some freak accident is talked about on the news?
Or do I get to stop time while they’re flipping the bird, pull their car off to the side of the road, take off their tires, fill their gas tank with sugar, then swipe their offending finger in their butt crack and leave it pressed against their upper lip?
If momentum was something to worry about, I feel like you’d have to worry about the movement of celestial bodies/etc too.
thats the best part: you get to decide how the physics of it will work
Assume some people were around you when you froze time. They saw you did something and then were the only one who could move.
Then they went through the absolute nightmare of being paralyzed and conscious for six months. And they know you’ve caused it.
I highly doubt the whole world concented to this.
Whatever else you did in frozen time barely changes a thing.
What if you spent your frozen time, determining the problems of everyone in the world, and solving them? So, when everybody got unfrozen, it was a utopia.
People may say “you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs”, but would the eggs agree ? With hindsight you might become seen as a hero, but I doubt that would change the immediate hatred people would feel upon release from half a year of bondage within oneself.
Exactly. If someone mowed my lawn for me, that’s cool. If they tied me to a chair so tight I couldn’t move until they were done, not so cool.
One person’s utopia is another’s dystopia. There will always be people genuinely upset about what you did or what “utopia” you want to archive.
Dude you can get in trouble for doing a lot of things that aren’t a criminal sex act. There’s so much more out there! Doing H until you nod out in public, stealing products, playing guitar after 10pm, orchestrating dog fights, gambling on when elderly people will die, driving a type I school bus with a physical on file that’s two years and ten days old, the possibility are endless.
Like half of these dont work if time is stopped tho.
I would still steel shit from larger chain shops to eat an stuff so that wouldnt work out. Also i would test my powers first.
steel shit? sounds painful…
Yes i have a disorder where i shit steel
Now there’s a superpower! STEEL SHIT and then shoot them with your poo.
Floater shit! - - you shit towards a person drowning so they now have a floatation device.
I respect people’s consent in the scenario where it’s something they experience or are affected by it. I’d imagine frozen time is consequence free zone for everyone.
Yes this is fantasy but what you’re effectively stating here is that if you don’t get caught it’s not wrong. The same argument would justify groping a deep sleeper, do you think that’s not wrong?
No, not really. I’m saying that if there’s zero effect for the would-be victim, I can’t see them being wronged. I think time freeze is probably not the right scenario for this though. They’d be physically affected. Copying them in an simulation type thing is more along the lines of what I’d consider harmless.
Unfortunately for me, I feel like if I thought I could get away with something consequences free, I’d probably do it. I’m not proud of that aspect of my morality, but I’d be lying if I denied it.
That said, I remind myself that if I’m too ashamed to do it under the scrutiny of people, then it is 100% not something I’m doing. That goes for simulations as well. Because there is always a chance someone will find out… and frankly, I don’t think I could live with myself.
Right or wrong, that’s my take on it.
That’s a very honest and self reflective stance that I think a lot of people would agree with. I don’t think it’s a moral failing, much of morality is putting aside your basic instinct and desire in favor of your rational mind realizing what’s best for you and society at large.
People have empathy to varying degrees and it’s something that needs training just like any other skill. Acknowledging where you have gaps and working rationally around those gaps is how you become a moral person. I don’t think you were necessarily being hard on yourself but others feeling the same way might be so I figured I’d share this perspective.
Well thank you for that assurance. It’s a scary thing to admit to, especially when you see people around you who seemingly do not struggle with this sort of thing. The whole, “I don’t need a book/law to tell me what’s right or wrong,” are lucky in that respect.
I don’t think any individual is implicitly moral with regards to everything. I’m not suggesting everyone has the same hidden desires but I believe everyone has some instinctive behaviors and thoughts that they need to challenge rationally in some way or another. Philosophical frameworks for morality wouldn’t exist or be debated if it was unusual to need a rational framework for moral behavior.
Unless somehow every harm someone inflicted on another somehow affected themselves in the same way there’ll always be a selfish instinct that has to be overcome. If it was easy it wouldn’t be something to admire and respect as part of one’s character.
Why should I put aside my feelings to protect someone else’s feelings who aren’t even gonna feel them for not knowing?
I mean, I could see doing stuff like stealing an awful lot of money from large multinational corporations.
Stockpiling gold, jewelry, and valuables from predatory pawn shops and stuff like that.
I wouldn’t have a lot of personal grief over the theft of property but I would have to draw the line where it comes to interfering with people.
I wouldn’t use time stopping powers to rape anyone or to kill my enemies or anything like that.
Might take a few politicians and like royally fuck with them until they are so unsettled that they can’t function in society anymore though.
Nah, people will judge you for totally harmless shit. Their judgement doesn’t mean you’re wrong. People hide their gayness or niche religions under the everything of people and they should not have to.
True when will rapists get to come out of the closet. What an insulting comparison.
Who said anything about rape? Also clearly you can figure out morality without it being external judgement. You’re coming at me with a chip on your shoulder.
that’s another interesting but debatable position. AI generated deepfakes of teens fall into that category.
So debate it.
An it harm none, do what ye will. Every day bullshit harms me dramatically more than any dude privately jerking it to me.
You’re once again relying on the fact that someone won’t find out in order for you to feel that you’ve gotten away with it. That’s not a moral act, that’s an immoral act that has gone by unnoticed.
Maybe you’re not hurt by me jerking it to you but you’d be hurt by another violation of your identity like me impersonating you to call your mother names and hurt her feelings. Those are both violations of you, and they’re ways of using you as a means to a selfish end.
Philosophical moral frameworks which people tend to follow include the idea that human beings shouldn’t be used as a means to an end.
We can tweak your example to one where the simulation is of someone that doesn’t exist and there’d be even less to call into question, but maybe at that point you feel you wouldn’t get the same thrill… That thrill is a sign that you’re being immoral.
You’re probably young and will hopefully continue to develop mentally and emotionally and will learn empathy, but your views here are problematic.
I do get you’re trying to get at consent is key, but your argument is flawed in that using a simulated copy to insult one’s mom still brings a real person into it
Use a digital copy of me to hurt people, yeah I’d be upset
Use a digital copy of me as a sex toy? I’d be fine with that
Never use the word problematic again.
Oh no I upset the fragile boy
you would have fun in the USS callister then
What’s that?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Callister
basically an episode that plays into that idea of cloning someone’s consciousness into your own personal hell
Noooooo, the consciousness is the morality anchor! We don’t fuck with that!
I’m just talking about physical stuff.
Edit: I REALLY gotta get back into watching black mirror though.
the last season was kinda meh, but its generally pretty good still until then
Installing hidden cameras in a public toilet is harmless by that definition as long as they never get discovered, but would still be highly immoral. I don’t think you’ve thought this through. People’s right to decide what happens to their body extends to things like who can see it rather than just who can physically touch it.
Religious people all think there’s a god watching them 24/7 and seem fine with that. Those same religious people didn’t seem to think I should get to decide to keep my foreskin.
The thing about the bathroom camera is that it’s like content piracy, and I personally don’t really care to engage in business of that nature. If you’re selling it, I don’t want it. I’m not more likely to pay just because I didn’t get it for free.
I’m more concerned about the nature of law and enforcement in relation to this kind of privacy breaches. The law can and will act on shit, and they need to be as restrained as we can get them. I’m never worried about embarrassing myself around a rational thinker. I’m worried of embarrassing myself around irrational judgement from people who will hurt me or make my life worse. The only real situation where I’m not worried about being watched is by people who straight up cannot do anything with what they see. No talking, no sharing, etc… I don’t wanna hear distant snickers from people who know what I’ve put in my butt.
i’d imagine not …???
Yeah, frozen time isn’t really it.