Some students could be heard booing as they waved Palestinian flags
  • Reddfugee42@lemmy.world
    1096·
    5 months ago

    The guy who said woke (aka not self centered sociopaths) have ruined comedy even though his partner on Seinfeld has had a wildly successful hit comedy series burning everyone for like eight years?

  • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
    372·
    5 months ago

    Tomorrow he’s going to complain about being “cancelled” and how he “can’t say things anymore” while talking about the event where he was invited to speak in front of a college full of students.

    You can say whatever you want, people don’t have to listen.

    • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
      132·
      5 months ago

      Exactly. Plus the right to free speech doesn’t equate to being free from criticism, or as you said, general disinterest.

    • refalo@programming.dev
      317·
      5 months ago

      tomorrow he

      no he’s not, this is a nothing burger that has nothing at all to do with his comedy

      invited

      be mad at the people who invited him if you’re going to be outraged at something.

        • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
          72·
          5 months ago

          “haha, we knew we assholes along!”

          It was also universally hated by fans. IASIP made sure there was no confusion about the characters morality.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            6·
            5 months ago

            That’s not why it was hated, it was hated because it was a bad and abrupt ending that didn’t go with the rest of the show.

            I don’t think anyone was under any illusions that the Seinfeld characters were supposed to be anything other than horrible people.

            • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
              4·
              5 months ago

              There were definitely people who modeled their behavior or at least excused their actions based on Seinfeld. My aunt for instance.

              There’s a long, long history of idiots missing the point of various pieces of fiction. The Prince, Fight Club and the original MS Gundam come to mind. Yoshikazu Yasuhiko even felt the need create Gundam: The Origin because too many kids thought Gundam’s message was “War is cool”.

        • Deway@lemmy.world
          52·
          5 months ago

          Friends would have been okay with Janice and Gunter. Community only needs the Dean. The big bang theory would have been better with just a black screen.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
            1·
            5 months ago

            Community only needs the Dean.

            I mean, technically, yes. It would work but it wouldn’t be Community. Abed is the cornerstone though if set alone wouldn’t work out, you also need sidekick Troy as an audience surrogate so we can all ride along. Troy&Abed on a space station would still be Community with different support characters.

    • suction@lemmy.world
      91·
      5 months ago

      Ever since be took Leno‘s side in the Tonight Show feud between Leno and Conan, he became non redeemable to me.

    • Crikeste@lemm.ee
      312·
      5 months ago

      Nothing is obligating you to respond this way other than some amount of respect you have for this bigot. DONT sugar coat your ability to look the other way in the face of bigotry.

  • rsuri@lemmy.world
    4010·
    5 months ago

    I can’t help but notice all the comedians who complain about society being took woke for comedy are has-beens. John Stewart’s back to crushing it at the Daily Show, is he complaining? No, it’s only the guys who’ve run out of material and have nothing left to do but shake their canes at gen Z kids.

    I challenge anyone to go to the “good old days” and find me a comedian who was actually funny and not just being an edgelord. You know who the most popular comedian was in the 80s? Andrew Dice Clay. That’s right. That’s was peak comedy, dirty nursery rhymes. Sure, I get that some people are nostalgic. But let’s be serious for a minute - do we really wanna go back to that kind of comedic void?

    Society hasn’t gotten too woke, rather comedic standards have evolved to the point where merely being offensive in itself no longer counts as comedy.

    • skeezix@lemmy.world
      29·
      5 months ago

      I challenge anyone to go to the “good old days” and find me a comedian who was actually funny and not just being an edgelord.

      The master himself. George Carlin. We could debate whether he was an edge lord or not. But his comedy was timeless and remains hysterical to this day. And his funniest bits were based on observation of the human condition.

      • AgentDalePoopster@lemmy.world
        193·
        5 months ago

        Carlin was vulgar, but he never punched down. I firmly believe his comedy would be as accepted today as it was when he made it.

        • LostWon@lemmy.ca
          61·
          5 months ago

          Carlin was good at what he did but he absolutely did punch down, just not at a specific person. The overarching message for a lot of his comedy was “You know you’re all being screwed over and maybe you have a hard time doing anything about it, but you deserve it because you’re stupid.” It’s just such a popular sentiment to call everyone else in society stupid, while excluding oneself, that I guess few people notice those undertones and their implications.

        • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
          2·
          5 months ago

          I can confirm. No matter how many times I listen to Mr Conductor talk about Poo Bear, I can’t help but laugh. Specially when he saws Roo into his own pouch!

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        141·
        5 months ago

        Carlin also re-invented himself with the times. The comedy he did in the 60s was entirely different from the comedy he did in the 90s.

        Jerry Seinfeld is still doing the same comedy he did in the 80s.

    • MeDuViNoX@sh.itjust.works
      18·
      5 months ago

      Robin Williams, Eddie Murphy, and Jim Carrey all seemed like they had really good specials. I haven’t watched them in a long time, but I don’t recall them being edge lords. I’m sure there have to be others.

      • root_beer@midwest.socialEnglish
        4·
        5 months ago

        He was, back in the day, his anti-authoritarian bent was pretty edgy then

        Tangentially: I tried getting into him a few years ago and it seemed tame and nothing I hadn’t heard before from so many other comedians. Then I realized that he was the vanguard of that style of comedy and of course it’s going to sound like retrodden ground if I’d heard all the people he’d influenced before I listened to him.

    • Ozone6363@lemmy.world
      86·
      5 months ago

      This shit couldn’t be more off base lmao.

      Not only have many greats been listed in response to you, you also have relevant comedians today bitching about “woke” as you call it.

      Is Bill Burr an edge lord has-been? Chapelle? Jon Stewart has mentioned this as well. Honestly, I think the meme of “YoU cAnT sAy tHiNgS aNyMoRe” is in over half of standups I watch.

      A huge portion of comedians mention this at some point.

  • nednobbins@lemm.ee
    4112·
    5 months ago

    I honestly never understood the attraction to Seinfeld.

    There were a few good jokes in there but the whole show was about them being assholes and proud of it.

    They’re selfish, judgemental and entitled. They’re constantly mocking and bullying other people and each other. The final episode even lays it out explicitly.

    Shows like “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia”, “Married… With Children” or “Breaking Bad” have various unsavory characters but we’re invited to reject these flaws or at least identify with them as flaws.

    Seinfeld is shameless about being an asshole and pretends the rest of us are just too dumb to understand his genius.

    • hardcoreufo@lemmy.world
      181·
      5 months ago

      I think you’re missing the point of these shows and that’s okay.

      The characters aren’t role models, they are your intrusive thoughts manifest. If you didn’t hear someone’s name when they told you, any rational person would just say it was loud and they didn’t hear you. They wouldnt go through lengths of introducing friends, finding out childhood taunts and rifling through your belongings in an attempt to save face.

      The joke is in the breaking of social norms. A show about people being polite to each other doesn’t make for very good comedy.

      • nednobbins@lemm.ee
        48·
        5 months ago

        That’s exactly my point. None of the characters in these shows are role models. We can sympathize with the Bundy’s or their neighbors but the show makes it obvious that nobody wants to emulate them. We can understand why Walther White did the things he does even if it’s clear that he shouldn’t have. The gang in Philly is all about showing us the worst possible decision in any given situation.

        Seinfeld, on the other hand, celebrates their behavior. It canonizes our intrusive thoughts as though they were a more authentic form of expression.

    • dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
      81·
      5 months ago

      I found that the clowning/assholery in Seinfeld was just too close to plausible to clock as humor most of the time, while picking on small and petty things; it’s a little too real. I don’t think that comes from conceit, but rather, a generation gap and all the insensitivity that comes with it. Just add a little casual violence and it’s peak boomer-era humor. That said, Seinfield was its best when the stories were less believable and cruel.

      The other shows you cite put these humor beats way over the top which is far more paletteable, IMO.

    • olmec@lemm.ee
      6·
      5 months ago

      I think you have a fundamentally different view than I do on the characters. They are all fundamentally nice people. The difference is, they get fixated on small issues, and let it control their actions. Jerry dates a woman that only looks good in bright light? Only go on dates that have good lighting. It is something you would want to do too, but you would have the control to not let it run the relationship. Jerry doesn’t have that control, and focuses on the good lighting at the expense of everything else.

      The characters aren’t mean. They didn’t wish I’ll on anyone. Many of the episodes are them trying to find a way to get out of a situation without being honest because they think the truth would hurt too. Idiots, yes, not not jerks.

      For another example. There is an episode where a waiter accidentally puts a menu on a candle and it lights on fire. George points it out, puts the fire out, and casually mentions “I think the busboy put the menu too close to the candle.” The manager overhears this, and fires the busboy. George then finds the busboy to try and help him get another job, but leaves the front door open, and the busboy’s cat escapes. It is the perfect example of what the characters are. They don’t want to hurt people, and go to extreme lengths to do it, even though it always backfires.

      • nednobbins@lemm.ee
        2·
        5 months ago

        I think you have a fundamentally different view than I do on the characters. That’s clearly true :)

        Even when the characters behave reasonably I always felt that they were motivated more by the potential for public embarrassment than by moral concern.

        It’s hard for me to think of George as a fundamentally nice. This is the guy who shoved children and elderly out of the way when he saw smoke, goaded an alcoholic into relapsing because he felt left out, constantly lied to get advantage in situations and even tried to kill a guy out of jealousy.

    • Sludgeyy@lemmy.world
      51·
      5 months ago

      You have to have grown up with it and gained an unconditional love of the characters. You don’t care that they are an asshole to a character you don’t like.

      Look at Kramer he is so stupid he can’t figure out a washing machine! Lol he’s going to try to pour a bunch of detergent in next and act like he’s drunk because he’s that stupid! He’s so funny!

      Edit: Remembered it wrong. He was pouring concrete into the washing machine. Classic asshole

      https://youtu.be/JdOwTN4-n1I?si=BSFSYj4FbGWLfqHA

    • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      5 months ago

      The characters in Seinfeld are shameless, but like with IASIP, they usually get burned at the end of the episode. And that continued over Curb Your Enthusiasm. Larry is petty and self-centered, he never learns, karma gets him in the last 30 seconds and then the Tuba drops - BUM BUM BUM.

  • Copernican@lemmy.world
    261·
    5 months ago

    Weird choice of quotes and headlines:

    From the OP article:

    “He has been “uncharacteristically vocal” about his support during press calls for his new film, Unfrosted, The New York Times reported.”

    From the NYT link in the quote:

    “As Mr. Seinfeld, who has recently been vocal about his support for Israel, received an honorary degree, dozens of students walked out and chanted, “Free, free Palestine,” while the comedian looked on and smiled tensely”

    But when you go to the link to the NY Times article that references Mr. Seinfeld as being recently vocal about his support of Israel, one of the concluding comments in the article is:

    Surely, Mr. Seinfeld sees it differently. His public comments have largely avoided geopolitical specifics, dwelling little on the choices of the Netanyahu government or prospective conditions for a cease-fire.

    And he can still sound hesitant even in recent discussions about the Jewishness of “Seinfeld” — which an NBC executive once described as “too New York, too Jewish.”

    Nothing about this makes me think Seinfield is a a strong supported of the war. Support for Israel after the attack can be a lot of things and does not mean pro Netanyahu war machine.

  • Crikeste@lemm.ee
    288·
    5 months ago

    CoMeDy Is DeAd.

    No. We’re just through with your bigotry disguised as humor.

    • refalo@programming.dev
      237·
      5 months ago

      That wasn’t it at all.

      The only people who left were pro-palestine nutjobs and there weren’t even that many of them

        • refalo@programming.dev
          33·
          5 months ago

          he never actually dated anyone under 18. but I’m sure someone will chime in with a slightly different strawman to try to rage at someone else because they hate their own life

          • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
            41·
            5 months ago

            Her name is Shoshanna Lonstein Gruss. They started dating when she was 17 and he was 38. No strawman.

            Is it really hard to believe that a celebrity was dating someone way too young? It should be illegal to have schools in LA.

            • refalo@programming.dev
              22·
              5 months ago

              They did not start actually dating until she was 18 according to many things I read but people will still die on this hill no matter what I say and no matter what they read.

              • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
                21·
                5 months ago

                This was the same era when Bill Clinton claimed he did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky because it was only a blow job.

                “Dating” just means they claimed not to have had sex until she was 18. He still met her by herself in a park and had private time with her when she was underaged. We call that today Grooming. Jerry Seinfeld is a groomer.

    • nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca
      3·
      5 months ago

      In 2010 or so I went to Cornell for the graduation ceremony of a family member of mine from their business school. The keynote speaker was Rudy Giuliani. His speech about living life with integrity really aged well lol.