https://t.me/pravdaGerashchenko_en/33920
“As of today, 28 settlements are under enemy control, the depth of penetration into the territory of the Kursk region is 12 kilometers, and the front’s width is 40 kilometers” - Kursk region acting governor told Putin. Putin interrupted him and said not to mention numbers.
I’m a bit worried that Ukraine will avenge Bucha and the others. That would be a bad thing in many levels.
Then again, I’m not sure how we could get reliable data about such a thing anyway: if they are forced to retreat from those areas, Russia will certainly accuse them of atrocities. Perhaps even make a few of their own and blame Ukraine.
Ukraine needs Western aid. They are not going to risk that for some stupid revenge. That kind of revenge would have the very serious consequence of loosing the war, turning it into no revenge at all.
To play thee devil’s advocate, Israel made the bar quite high for atrocities that will have the west stop supporting you.
@bouh @MrMakabar Ukraine do not seem to be playing the revenge card at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. Israel, on the other hand, are only playing the revenge card, they could learn a lot from Ukraine.
I know that. Ukraine soldiers are actual soldiers, not bandits on a crusade. Still, Israel still has full support of US and France for example, which is a shame. I wish even half of what’s meant to Israel went to Ukraine instead, they deserve it much much more.
@bouh I totally agree
Unfortunately war turns everyone into a bandit, the horrors of this war are well documented. This post kinda imply that the meat grinder has now moved in russian territory too.
However anecdotal this may be, I speak regularly to a Ukrainian, who whilst not fighting on the frontline helps with R&D and stuff like that towards the effort.
Every time I speak to him and the war comes up he only ever speaks of wanting the Russians out of his land, and to just return to his normal life and says that this is the mindset behind every man in his group.
Also those atrocities early in the war seem to come from units from the backcountry of Russia, places with ethnic minorities and extreme poverty, probably not very well educated. Closest thing we have to barbarians in the modern day. I don’t think we’ll find that mentality in any ukranian units
That’s not totally true. There were lists of local political elites to be killed in Ukraine once they establish control. And this is what happened in Bucha. They wanted to purge all Ukrainians who will have influence under occupation. Occupation that didn’t go according to the plan.
That is true
Of course they will. You will absolutely find individuals who had their family and friends killed who are going to take it out on Russians. They’re still only humans, and country is composed entirely of saints.
The difference is that they’ll be individuals, who will hopefully be court-martialed for it, not the widespread ordered pillage and rape without reprisals you see with Russia.
I’d imagine they where all very strictly instructed to be courteous but direct and not accept Russians fucking with them but also to leave the locals alone. This will show Russians the sharp contrast with the MOD goon-squad if the Russians manage to take Kursk back.
And record it all. Did you see the video of the older ladies asking for a ride? Clearly the Russians in that area are aware of who is violent for the sake of being violent and who is defending their homeland against a violent intruder.
The best part was that the babushkas were speaking Ukrainian.
Do you know why Bucha happened? It’s the key for your question.
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It’s an easy jab, but there’s probably a place for a three-part documentary why they (and other historical butchers) deteriorated to such a state.
What matters is the difference in conditions between ukrainians under Kursk and russians in Butcha. UAF now has experience, discipline, logistics and clear goals, not to say they know they are under a constant threat of enemy’s forces and under a surveiliance from the whole world. Bucha’s troops who had no previous experience, no plan to stay there for long, were left to their own devices, without discipline, logistics and objectives, so these armed frat-boys who were indefinitely placed there started small with looting food and gas, but as it progressed, they started to feel safe and like they own the place, and as you can read in many accounts about occupation, they quickly normalized violence and dehumanized local population not only for the sadists in them who ignited the fire, but for everyone in here. Alcohol, drugs, paranoia, boredom and a lack of any responsibility for the power given to them by weapons created the pests who loot, rape and murder at a whim, like the worst hordes we can read about. And I can’t see how a tight operation with a precalculated strategy can turn into that nightmare. As a lowest common denominator for those who believe these troops are equal: don’t worry, ukrainians just don’t have time to degrade like this even in theory, they have too much on their hands, so Bucha 2.0 is impossible.